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Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract ending

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Re: Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract ending

#211

Note that this is for the May contract, which closes tomorrow, and anyone left with a contract then will have to actually take delivery of the physical product. Since we are in supercontango (oil storage is full, causing spot prices to be significantly lower than forward prices), I am guessing that traders who are still holding on to contracts and don’t have available storage have to unload contracts pretty quickly.…

What I don't understand is why the sudden move today? Did the longs think they had a place to put the oil on Friday but found out over the weekend they had no place to put it? Just seems like you would know what to do with the oil on Friday. Note this is not a rhetorical question, I would sincerely like an answer.

[deleted]

Re: Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract ending

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this almost happened to me once when I was trading futures. My broker called me several times throughout the day and I couldn't take the call. When I finally did, he told me to roll my contract forward that day otherwise I would have to take delivery of 1000 bushels of corn.

I'd love to hear from someone that got stuck with the 1000 bushels of corn (or similar). What do you do? How in the world do you manage that?

There's a great Planet Money story on the Onion King.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/09/19/649273647/epis...

Re: Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract ending

#213
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't understand is why the sudden move today? Did the longs think they had a place to put the oil on Friday but found out over the weekend they had no place to put it? Just seems like you would know what to do with the oil on Friday. Note this is not a rhetorical question, I would sincerely like an answer.

It’s called super contango. And storage has not run out yet. Cushing is not full. The problem is traders are anticipating storage will become very expensive as remaining capacity decreases, so if you’re holding on to May contracts and you’re not using the oil because there’s a glut right now then you’re going to be paying a lot more to keep storing the oil for future months as storage costs go up. The huge discount r…

Sorry to miss it, but how does this answer my question?

I asked why they weren't prepared on Friday. Storage has been expensive and getting more expensive for weeks. We've been in a massive contango for weeks. Why weren't they prepared on Friday for physical delivery?

Re: Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract ending

#214

Crude spot at $10.80 right now. 40 percent crash in an day.

I pay more for a Chipotle burrito (with guac of course, can't live without guac). This is incredible.

A barrel of crude has always cost less than a barrel of burritos.

Re: Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract ending

#215

Note that this is for the May contract, which closes tomorrow, and anyone left with a contract then will have to actually take delivery of the physical product. Since we are in supercontango (oil storage is full, causing spot prices to be significantly lower than forward prices), I am guessing that traders who are still holding on to contracts and don’t have available storage have to unload contracts pretty quickly.…

It’s not full, it’s just getting closer to being full if demand remains low. The discount reflects a premium on storing unused oil at Cushing

Re: Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract ending

#216
“ The upcoming May contract’s expiry means traders are shifting their positions to June as they try to avoid taking deliveries of cargoes because of the lack of space to store them. That has opened up an unprecedented discount of more than $10 between the two nearest contracts.

This situation—in which the price of the June contract is far above that of the May one—apparently delights in the name “super contango.” People put a price on oil—they think it has value and want to own it at that value—but they also put a price on not having it now, and the latter price is quite high relative to the former. Conceivably, in theory, the latter price (what you’d pay to not have oil now) could exceed the former (what you’d pay to have oil eventually), leading to negative spot prices. We’re getting there:

There are signs of weakness everywhere. Buyers in Texas are offering as little as $2 a barrel for some oil streams, raising the possibility that producers may soon have to pay to have crude taken off their hands.

In ordinary economics, things do not have negative prices: If nobody wants a thing, if you’d have to pay them to take the thing, you just don’t make it. Oil is a little weird—it is hard to shut in and then restart an oil well, and there are all sorts of weird cartels and game theory involved in oil pricing and production—but the other thing going on here is that a global pandemic is pretty weird for commodity prices. The price of oil is not approaching zero because nobody needs oil; you can look into the future—or at futures prices—and see that, in fact, there is demand for oil. But right now, with the world economy closed, people need much less oil than they’ve got. If you have a thing that lots of people want, but that no one wants right now, it is hard to put a normal price on it.” today’s money stuff newsletter by Matt Levine

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2020-04-20/th...?

Re: Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract ending

#217

I'm a software developer, which translates to being somehow smart, but I'm not that into economics: Will this have a rubber band effect? E.g., the price will skyrocket in the next 2 - 5 years, because of this?

No. By what mechanism would a commodity price be elastic?

Long term capacity reduction due to underinvestment?

Re: Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract ending

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to hear from someone that got stuck with the 1000 bushels of corn (or similar). What do you do? How in the world do you manage that?

Worse it isn't 1000 bushes at your home it is at some transfer point several states away. If you are lucky it is an elevator that sends you a bill for storage and can unload them. If you are unlucky you need to get a truck (with a driver) there on short notice to get it out of there.

What if you just don't? You probably just get a larger bill.

Re: Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract ending

#219
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is obviously wrong. The EPA has explicitly stated they will not be enforcing regulation. Source: https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/489753-epa-sus...

From the memo that generated the news story you linked: > IV. Accidental Releases Nothing in this temporary policy relieves any entity from the responsibility to prevent, respond to, or report accidental releases of oil, hazardous substances, hazardous chemicals, hazardous waste, and other pollutants, as required by federal law, or should be read as a willingness to exercise enforcement discretion in the wake of such…

If one wished to be nit-picky, one might note that the part you quote is explicitly about "accidental" releases, so arguably does not apply to the deliberate release that the originator of this thread branch was talking about. :-)

Re: Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract ending

#220
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s called super contango. And storage has not run out yet. Cushing is not full. The problem is traders are anticipating storage will become very expensive as remaining capacity decreases, so if you’re holding on to May contracts and you’re not using the oil because there’s a glut right now then you’re going to be paying a lot more to keep storing the oil for future months as storage costs go up. The huge discount r…

Sorry to miss it, but how does this answer my question? I asked why they weren't prepared on Friday. Storage has been expensive and getting more expensive for weeks. We've been in a massive contango for weeks. Why weren't they prepared on Friday for physical delivery?

Most oil traders don’t actually want physical delivery. They are just trying to profit off price movements. Traders have moved on to June contracts already. There’s no volume on May contracts at this point. No one wants to actually pay for physical delivery so the price is tanking since there are no bids as we get closer to expiration tomorrow.
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