Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Denmark: No aid for companies which pay out dividends or are reg. in tax havens

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 308 posts

Re: Denmark: No aid for companies which pay out dividends or are reg. in tax havens

#151

Post by chrisseaton »

ardy42 wrote: post #144
chrisseaton wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many workers are paid a majority of their income in the form of stock from the company they work for.

> Many workers are paid a majority of their income in the form of stock from the company they work for. A very small "many." I'd imagine that class consists mostly of highly-placed executives (who can be assumed to be rather wealthy) and some number of people playing the startup lottery.

I think at many large enterprises getting paid in stock is standard for even junior line-worker hires. Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Oracle, etc. People a few years into their career are often paid a majority in stock.

Re: Denmark: No aid for companies which pay out dividends or are reg. in tax havens

#152

Post by asdfadsfgfdda »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #33
chrismeller wrote: post #21

> The government also said that companies which pay out dividends, buy back own shares or are registered in tax havens won’t be eligible for any of the aid programs... Well first off, dividends are a normal method for business owners to make an income... they take all the risk, but reap some limited rewards by taking dividends rather than a salary. Buying back shares I’m fine with. While that could actually be seen a…

> Well first off, dividends are a normal method for business owners to make an income... they take all the risk, but reap some limited rewards by taking dividends rather than a salary. Shareholders should not just profit from the upside, but eat the downside too, which his exactly what this is. You can't take the dividends, claiming "I took all the risks", and then expect the state to bail you out. No upside without…

Imagine two different companies, both make the same gross profit. Company A returns profit to shareholders by issuing a dividend and buying back shares. Company B doesn't have many shareholders, so instead of using raised capital, they have borrowed debt. They return their profit to debt holders in the form of interest payment. Company B actually returns more money overall because these interest payments are tax deductible.

If the economy slows down and gross profit decreases, company A stops its dividend. Company B defaults and declares bankruptcy.

Do we really want to bailout only company B? Tax policy already pushes companies to look more like company B.

Re: Denmark: No aid for companies which pay out dividends or are reg. in tax havens

#153

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

rsync wrote: post #41
_se wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they are not. The vast majority of companies do not pay dividends.

You are correct that the vast majority of publicly traded companies do not pay dividends. However, that is a small minority of all firms and I hope you will find it interesting to learn that many, many small firms' owners (Doctors offices, car dealers, liquor stores, carwashes, etc.) take regular compensation in the form of dividends. Further, I will point that in the United States, if you are an "S Corp" (and millio…

> You are correct that the vast majority of publicly traded companies do not pay dividends.

How many stocks in the S&P 500 pay no dividends?

Re: Denmark: No aid for companies which pay out dividends or are reg. in tax havens

#154

Post by ThomPete »

flexie wrote: post #84

Danish lawyer here. The proposal only limits payments to companies that have received more than DKK 60 million (around EUR 8 million) in aid. So this is not your usual business owner. These are generally larger companies with a well paid management. As for companies registered in tax havens, the EU has made an official list of tax havens, which will be followed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_tax_haven_…

Denmark is a tax haven itself though.

Re: Denmark: No aid for companies which pay out dividends or are reg. in tax havens

#155

Post by komali2 »

oconnor663 wrote: post #133
flexie wrote: post #84

Danish lawyer here. The proposal only limits payments to companies that have received more than DKK 60 million (around EUR 8 million) in aid. So this is not your usual business owner. These are generally larger companies with a well paid management. As for companies registered in tax havens, the EU has made an official list of tax havens, which will be followed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_tax_haven_…

> Why should tax payers bail out a tax avoiding company? I think that depends on our answer to the prior question, "Why should tax payers bail out any company?" If the answer is "because we like them and we feel a patriotic/moral/righteous duty to help them", then the distinction between tax-paying and tax-avoiding companies does seem relevant. But if the answer is "to help workers keep their jobs", then the distinct…

The government has unilateral ability to invent jobs and even invent money if the goal is to help workers keep their jobs and/or remain fed and housed. So I feel that no company should get a bailout. If they fail, they fail, and the government can scoop up the workers and create an agency or just government-staked company that does the same thing, find some work in the country that needs doing and put the workers on it, or stipend the workers until they find a new job.

Of course, that means the failed company's executive board has to also find a way to actually add value...

Re: Denmark: No aid for companies which pay out dividends or are reg. in tax havens

#156

Post by _se »

rsync wrote: post #41
_se wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they are not. The vast majority of companies do not pay dividends.

You are correct that the vast majority of publicly traded companies do not pay dividends. However, that is a small minority of all firms and I hope you will find it interesting to learn that many, many small firms' owners (Doctors offices, car dealers, liquor stores, carwashes, etc.) take regular compensation in the form of dividends. Further, I will point that in the United States, if you are an "S Corp" (and millio…

I haven't read the law, but I would be surprised if it excluded the Danish equivalent of K-1. That would not make sense, it's a completely different thing.

Re: Denmark: No aid for companies which pay out dividends or are reg. in tax havens

#157

Post by kleiba »

oconnor663 wrote: post #133
flexie wrote: post #84

Danish lawyer here. The proposal only limits payments to companies that have received more than DKK 60 million (around EUR 8 million) in aid. So this is not your usual business owner. These are generally larger companies with a well paid management. As for companies registered in tax havens, the EU has made an official list of tax havens, which will be followed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_tax_haven_…

> Why should tax payers bail out a tax avoiding company? I think that depends on our answer to the prior question, "Why should tax payers bail out any company?" If the answer is "because we like them and we feel a patriotic/moral/righteous duty to help them", then the distinction between tax-paying and tax-avoiding companies does seem relevant. But if the answer is "to help workers keep their jobs", then the distinct…

There is some truth to that line of thought.

Either it is legal to avoid taxes, then no distinction should be made. Or it is illegal, in which they should be persecuted.

But making this distinction as a means to "punish" certain companies seems to conflate two unrelated issues.

Re: Denmark: No aid for companies which pay out dividends or are reg. in tax havens

#158

Post by _se »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #153
rsync wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct that the vast majority of publicly traded companies do not pay dividends. However, that is a small minority of all firms and I hope you will find it interesting to learn that many, many small firms' owners (Doctors offices, car dealers, liquor stores, carwashes, etc.) take regular compensation in the form of dividends. Further, I will point that in the United States, if you are an "S Corp" (and millio…

> You are correct that the vast majority of publicly traded companies do not pay dividends. How many stocks in the S&P 500 pay no dividends?

418 pay dividends.

Re: Denmark: No aid for companies which pay out dividends or are reg. in tax havens

#159

Post by simongray »

ThomPete wrote: post #16

The irony of this is that Denmark is kind of a tax haven for international holding companies that can be tax-free.

It's only ironic if you're prone to mixing up nationalities.

1. Denmark is a country in Scandinavia where they speak Danish. It's not a tax haven and it is not the country where they speak Dutch.

2. That country is called the Netherlands and that country has a tax evasion scheme named after it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Sandwich

Re: Denmark: No aid for companies which pay out dividends or are reg. in tax havens

#160

Post by Entalpi »

oconnor663 wrote: post #133
flexie wrote: post #84

Danish lawyer here. The proposal only limits payments to companies that have received more than DKK 60 million (around EUR 8 million) in aid. So this is not your usual business owner. These are generally larger companies with a well paid management. As for companies registered in tax havens, the EU has made an official list of tax havens, which will be followed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_tax_haven_…

> Why should tax payers bail out a tax avoiding company? I think that depends on our answer to the prior question, "Why should tax payers bail out any company?" If the answer is "because we like them and we feel a patriotic/moral/righteous duty to help them", then the distinction between tax-paying and tax-avoiding companies does seem relevant. But if the answer is "to help workers keep their jobs", then the distinct…

Because keeping jobs is important as it is harder to create them.

Joblosses are talent moving away. Shops that will never reopen.

Post reply on HN