Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Psilocybin Produced in Yeast

phys.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 214 posts

Re: Psilocybin Produced in Yeast

#151

Post by throwaway_pdp09 »

svara wrote: post #138
throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your heart's in the right place but that's not enough. Do this for me: suppose someone's taking prozac for depression. Given that St. John's Wort is also an antidepressant, how well would it work to have someone take both at the same time? How much will they complement each other? Please answer that WITHOUT LOOKING IT UP, just based on common sense and logic. I'll explain why.

Since they're both presumably SSRIs (in the case of St. John's wort this is not 100% clear, since it seems to have some dopaminergic and noradrenergic activity as well), the activity on serotonergic signaling would be enhanced, possibly up to the point where that becomes toxic (i.e., causes a serotonin syndrome) - that would depend on dosage. Additionally at least St. John's wort has IIRC some activity on CYP enzymes…

You really didn't look that up? Ok, well done.

First the why would I. Because if you are in that state, anything's worth a try. My naive logic was if you stack antidepressants you get more effect. Yea, well, not the way I intended.

Prozac is an SSRI, StJW is an MAOI. SSRI + MAOI = serotonin event. I was lucky not to end up in hospital.

St. John's Wort has possible side effects including photosensitivity and eye problems (glaucoma or cataracts, can't remember). You can't say which is best or better, or even recommend anything except on an individual level. You can't talk about 'best' or 'better' except on an average level and you really need to understand what's appropriate for the individual patient. For example, if someone's struggling on prozac with the side effects then why not have them come off and try SJWort? What have they got to lose?

Quite a lot if things go wrong. The prozac has to clear from your system (weeks at least) and SJW may not work - so go back to prozac, no problem right?

But going back to prozac may not work - when you come off antidepressents and go back onto them, sometimes they don't work again. Unusual bit it happens. That is a really terrifying prospect if you have depression, so you may (as I did) choose to continue with bad side effects of prozac rather than take the chance (assuming the person is even aware this can happen). The alternative is too horrible.

So what I'm saying is I quite agree SJW may be a valid treatment but there's too much complexity involved for a layman to recommend anything. By all means suggest they talk to their doctor (or pharmacist) about it, and educate them as far as you can, but don't push any treatment, it's just too complex and risky a topic without decent knowledge.

Re: Psilocybin Produced in Yeast

#152

Post by rv-de »

gwbas1c wrote: post #146
mikeg8 wrote: post #5

> "It's unfeasible and way too expensive to extract psilocybin from magic mushrooms and the best chemical synthesis methods require expensive and difficult to source starting substrates...” This is one of those situations where I feel like we (humans) are approaching it all wrong. Why over complicate it by trying to “extract” the psilocybin instead of treating it like marijuana and growing the mushrooms in highly con…

I like how mushrooms taste, but my sister doesn't. Her husband even insisted that we don't serve any mushrooms at their wedding. (Granted, it's been years since I last ate magic mushrooms. I loved the way they tasted, but I don't think it's fair for someone who doesn't like they way they taste to have to gag them down just for a trip. I can still remember how they tasted, and the wonderful visions I had.) Mushrooms a…

You're conflating Mushrooms with (Mu)Shrooms it seems to me. Shrooms are not primarily about the taste. And you can very well make Shrooms storable for up to several years.

Re: Psilocybin Produced in Yeast

#153

Post by rv-de »

monktastic1 wrote: post #141
smabie wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, since we already have 4-aco-dmt (which is virtually identical to psilocybin), so there's no real reason to extract.

Having had countless cubensis trips and a handful of 4-aco-dmt ones, I didn't find them very similar (and found the latter to be uniquely unpleasant). Perhaps I have weird chemistry, but I'm not alone. I would hate for others to miss out.

I would second this. It might be, though, because it is much easier to overdose 4-Aco-DMT than shrooms. Even most milligram scales don't reliably differentiate between 30 and 50 mg but the trip on the latter would be immensely more intense. 4-Aco-DMT seems also to be much closer to DMT than, say, LSD.

Re: Psilocybin Produced in Yeast

#154

Post by techbio »

sysbin wrote: post #57
plurinshael wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People with psychiatric disorders need spiritual journeys. Spiritual journeys heal and cleanse the mind, heal and cleanse the soul. Do not try to strip that away. The commodification of medicine troubles me--I prefer the perspective of sacred medicine. It goes roughly definitionally / tautologically: if something heals you, is it not sacred? And likewise, if something is sacred, it heals you. By definition. The idea…

> People with psychiatric disorders need spiritual journeys. Spiritual journeys heal and cleanse the mind, heal and cleanse the soul. Do not try to strip that away. No opinion on the article or yours but where are you getting this opinion? Why or how, do psychiatric disorders need spiritual journeys. Not all people believe in spiritual journeys or are capable of it. There is noting scientific about what you're sugges…

"Spiritual awakening" is a keystone of 12-Step programs such as Alcoholics Anonymous, whether effective or not, it is the de facto official treatment for substance use disorders.

"Religious delusions" are a frequent component of schizophrenia.

Clearly more research is needed in this space if we are ever to reason about it in a scientific context.

Re: Psilocybin Produced in Yeast

#155

Post by refurb »

A few comments:

- psilocybin is pretty easy to synthesize with the exception of the phosphorylation (can be hard to purify without degrading it)

- this is a research publication, so of course they put their findings in the best possible light (“finally the synthesis everyone has been waiting for”)

Re: Psilocybin Produced in Yeast

#156

Post by rv-de »

ralusek wrote: post #110
kfrzcode wrote: post #44

Consciousness studies will be the next frontier and may bring our race further, faster, than space exploration. In my opinion.

I've never once heard a bit of insight from a psychonaut that was particularly game-changing. We're all connected, consciousness is an illusion, societal structures are somewhat arbitrarily defined, etc. These are the existential thoughts of teenagers. Life is just energy, energy is just vibrations, everything is a fractal, etc, these are just the existential speculations of people making baseless claims. Consciousne…

> I've never once heard a bit of insight from a psychonaut that was particularly game-changing.

What is game changing is the experience - not reading or hearing about it.

Re: Psilocybin Produced in Yeast

#157

Post by msla »

34679 wrote: post #115
msla wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that highly artificial process any better than making a pill? Plus, how do you know what other ingredients are in the mushrooms?

The cannabis industry has learned that "what other ingredients" are in the cannabis has a significant effect on the high produced by THC. This is known as the entourage effect. You simply do not get the full benefits with THC alone.

We'll need to figure out what those ingredients are, and how they work, and what negative effects they have.

Otherwise, we're being extremely unwise, and setting ourselves up for serious problems later.

Re: Psilocybin Produced in Yeast

#158

Post by msla »

rv-de wrote: post #99
msla wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He transparently identifies his a.p.ex. as such. Then it's not a fallacy ... It's an experience. It's an experience which we have no reason to think is representative. > Of course there is. You just have to mix the mushrooms well and then measure potency of a sample. How is this highly artificial process any better than making a pill? I can tell you one way it's worse: What else is in the mushrooms? How do you know…

> It's an experience which we have no reason to think is representative. That's the very nature of "experiences" and some might argue precisely the point of describing those. > How is this highly artificial process any better than making a pill? Never said that. Do you even know what you mean by "pill" in this context? > I can tell you one way it's worse: What else is in the mushrooms? How do you know what else is in…

> That's the very nature of "experiences" and some might argue precisely the point of describing those.

It's also why we need controlled experiments.

> Never said that. Do you even know what you mean by "pill" in this context?

Of course I do: A pill with a controlled amount of the active ingredients and a neutral binder.

> Maybe you should read the article first?

Maybe you should stop trying to condescend to me and answer the question?

> They want to reproduce a mushroom trip

Obviously not. They want to treat mental disorders.

Re: Psilocybin Produced in Yeast

#159

Post by loeg »

msla wrote: post #157
34679 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cannabis industry has learned that "what other ingredients" are in the cannabis has a significant effect on the high produced by THC. This is known as the entourage effect. You simply do not get the full benefits with THC alone.

We'll need to figure out what those ingredients are, and how they work, and what negative effects they have. Otherwise, we're being extremely unwise, and setting ourselves up for serious problems later.

Or you could just do longitudinal studies on the thousands of people who voluntarily consume these things without apparent ill effect. They don’t appear to be immediately toxic so any risk here is fairly long term. Lots of anecdata self-reporting on Erowid.

Re: Psilocybin Produced in Yeast

#160

Post by steve76 »

mikeg8 wrote: post #5

> "It's unfeasible and way too expensive to extract psilocybin from magic mushrooms and the best chemical synthesis methods require expensive and difficult to source starting substrates...” This is one of those situations where I feel like we (humans) are approaching it all wrong. Why over complicate it by trying to “extract” the psilocybin instead of treating it like marijuana and growing the mushrooms in highly con…

Stroke survivors often suffer from hemianopsia, a loss of visual field due to blood matting down very fine hairs. More critical circulation restoring surgeries, like removing a tumor, sometimes have restored vision.

A drug that does that would be used by billions. It would be nice to find an existing rated process.

Post reply on HN