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iCab: Alternative Browser for macOS

icab.de

51–60 of 83 posts

Re: iCab: Alternative Browser for macOS

#51
Wow, I helped translate this (well, the iOS version) into Czech many many years ago! I’m glad it still exists, the author — Alex, if I remember right — is very friendly and a great developer.

It was my first “freelance” project; I didn’t even expect him to pay, I just liked his browser and wanted to feel like a grown man (was 14 at the time). But he insisted he’ll pay me; it was the first money I ever made. Ah, good memories. If the author sees this: Good luck!

Re: iCab: Alternative Browser for macOS

#53
post #51

Wow, I helped translate this (well, the iOS version) into Czech many many years ago! I’m glad it still exists, the author — Alex, if I remember right — is very friendly and a great developer. It was my first “freelance” project; I didn’t even expect him to pay, I just liked his browser and wanted to feel like a grown man (was 14 at the time). But he insisted he’ll pay me; it was the first money I ever made. Ah, good…

wholesome story! :)

Re: iCab: Alternative Browser for macOS

#54
Why are all the screenshots on this page from 2007, and use 10.5 Leopard, if the browser doesn’t even support it anymore?

Oh, because the actual user interface did not change since then. A print button? The entire browser chrome over two times as large as Safari’s or Firefox’s? I don’t see the point in using iCab in 2020, let alone paying $10 for it.

Re: iCab: Alternative Browser for macOS

#55
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this space really evolving that much anymore though? I don't follow this field; what's been going on in web standards lately? Seems like lately, from a user perspective, the current emphasis is mostly on doing the same things faster. So an indie browser developer probably won't get JS JIT down as well as a megacorp, but is that it? It seems to me like if you are standards compliant as of 5 years ago there shouldn'…

I can understand why it might seem that way but it is actually evolving very quickly. Probably faster than any other time in history. There are a few things driving this evolution but I think the most important one is a desire to make the web a competitive platform for most types of software. This means lower level APIs, deeper integration with OS, and yes a large focus on performance. 3D graphics, offline support, p…

That sounds awful haha.

Re: iCab: Alternative Browser for macOS

#56
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern HTML rendering engines are much much harder than you think, switching to webKit is a way to prevent obsolescence for any browser that doesn't have a huge team of devs behind it.

Is this space really evolving that much anymore though? I don't follow this field; what's been going on in web standards lately? Seems like lately, from a user perspective, the current emphasis is mostly on doing the same things faster. So an indie browser developer probably won't get JS JIT down as well as a megacorp, but is that it? It seems to me like if you are standards compliant as of 5 years ago there shouldn'…

Oh my no. There's the plethora of Web APIs to attend to, with ever new things that require support in order for websites to work. And each of those creates complex security concerns. The js spec is ever moving, with new syntax and features. Accessibility concerns interact with all of these other parts. It's "normal" to ship complex desktop apps deployed to the browser now. And THEN, after all that, you need to maintain backwards compatibility with old standards.

You basically need to handle an operating system where the VM is built on top of your browser, with all the security responsibilities and changing demands of developers working on your platform therein.

Re: iCab: Alternative Browser for macOS

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does this keep happening? Browsers sell their soul to just be another coat of paint on top of WebKit. I honestly don't get it. If you're working on a web browser as a personal or open source project, switching to WebKit is basically just replacing the entire project that you've worked on, and then writing your name on WebKit. There's not much more to a browser than a rendering engine. There really isn't a killer…

I think modern browsers could be a baseline for network based OS in couple of years to come. It is really complex and has zillion features that not many developers know exactly know

Networking is already first class on most operating systems worth naming, even the ones without a good browser.

A modern browser as a basis for the Shell/userland of an operating system is essentially Chrome OS with a difference in user experience that’s about as different as the set of features from browser to browser. A lean userland might be desirable, but even operating systems with lean out of the box userlands usually have a package manger that can quickly expand the base of software available to you on the system.

And speaking of package managers, the stuff going on with Nix and Guix is a lot more interesting than reinventions of Chrome OS. Check them out, the system can be about as lean or thick as you like depending on how you configure it.

Re: iCab: Alternative Browser for macOS

#58

I used to use this in college before I switched to Camino!

Oh my God, I loved Camino so much! The browser scene for the Mac in the early Aught's was such a mess. Netscape was bloated, slow as hell, and wasn't keeping up with standards. IE was great, but you were always suspicious of MS's agenda. Safari was still a bit rough and lacked a lot of features. Camino was snappy, clean, and had very good standards compliance. Such a great little browser!

Camino was awesome, one feature that I missed when I had to switch away from it was that its download list actually noticed when the files weren't there anymore (it's the small things that add up).

I even had a short look on how hard it would be to use the shell for a more modern engine, but it seems deeply entrenched in the Mozilla codebase, which is basically a dungeon full of undead, dragons and rust monsters.

Re: iCab: Alternative Browser for macOS

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably because doing anything else is just impossible in this day and age. There are only two-and-a-half actively-maintained rendering engines in existence: Gecko, and Chromium/Webkit. There's a reason for that. A single person isn't going to be able to maintain their own.

There's also Netsurf, Dillo, as well as Links and the rest of the text-based ones. The monopoly should definitely be fought.

I think the main problem is that the DOM and javascript are just too large for one person / small team to maintain, so you get feature lag. I'm hoping webassembly and canvas are a small enough target to overcome this, but if we were to look at what could have been, Scheme and something like Tk would've been better
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