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Psilocybin Produced in Yeast

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Re: Psilocybin Produced in Yeast

#51

Post by svara »

mikeg8 wrote: post #5

> "It's unfeasible and way too expensive to extract psilocybin from magic mushrooms and the best chemical synthesis methods require expensive and difficult to source starting substrates...” This is one of those situations where I feel like we (humans) are approaching it all wrong. Why over complicate it by trying to “extract” the psilocybin instead of treating it like marijuana and growing the mushrooms in highly con…

Standardized total extracts of natural sources are pretty standard in the pharmacopeia, so what you're saying makes total sense. Making sure that the dosage is standardized is a solved problem.

Unfortunately this type of drug preparation is not that fashionable. One example of this is the total extract of St. John's Wort, which is superior to synthetic antidepressants in many cases, but doctors often prefer to prescribe the latter (presumably because a plant based medicine doesn't sound as powerful?).

Re: Psilocybin Produced in Yeast

#52

Post by isoprophlex »

scythe wrote: post #8

Psilocybin may be an underrated chemical precursor. 4-substituted indoles are notoriously difficult to synthesize. Psilocin is a rare example of a natural one. (LSD is another.) For example, a milliliter of 4-bromoindole costs a whopping $75: https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/aldrich/524336?... Presumably this technique could produce psilocybin for much less than $75 per milliliter.

Be careful thinking about potential cost of bringing a synthesis to market based on Sigma Aldrich catalog prices. SA is a supply house for research chemicals, prioritizing quantity of compounds offered and consistent, specified quality over price. The range of products they offer is insane, even considering the reactivity and instability of some of them.

If your commercialize a compound, you source these starting materials (eg. Bromoindole) directly through manufacturers. You will be able to buy in bulk at 10-1000x lower prices, sometimes. Of course you need to do judicious quality controls yourself, but you likely have the scaling benefits to do.

Re: Psilocybin Produced in Yeast

#53

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

TomMarius wrote: post #47
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia: To use a still of any capacity to distil alcohol such as spirits, you must have an excise manufacturer licence. Severe penalties apply for manufacturing spirits without an excise manufacturer licence. [1] Although, in practice, I can’t say I’ve ever heard of a case of someone being fined for making spirits at home, and you’d probably have to repeatedly offend that particular law in order to be sentenced to…

Isn't that because of taxation? It is that way in Czechia as well, purely because of that; it is OK to make spirits at home though (up to some - albeit pretty large - amount).

I’m honestly not sure I know what the original motivations for that law is, but I always assumed it’s due to taxation and licensing reasons.

Re: Psilocybin Produced in Yeast

#54

Post by KarlKemp »

samatman wrote: post #32
taneq wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Extraction can’t be that expensive. From the article, apparently yes it can: "It's unfeasible and way too expensive to extract psilocybin from magic mushrooms"

It does say that. It's wrong, what it says, but it definitely says it.

Is there any pure psilocybin being sold?

My (entirely pop-culture based) impression is that "white powder" and similar processed substances of high purity are the dominant form for almost all drugs. Cocaine isn't sold as leaves, nor can you buy dried poppies.

Marijuana is an exception because it easier to smoke in its more natural state and, let's face it, because its users are hippies beholden to the naturalistic fallacy. But THC and that-other-stuff-I-cant-remember are available as concentrates.

Given these preferences, psilocybin is the outlier where, as far as I can tell, only the raw, natural form is available. Since the taste is so awful it's close to legendary, I think we can exclude market preference as a cause. That leaves the extraction being rather difficult as the most plausible explanation, doesn't it?

Re: Psilocybin Produced in Yeast

#55

Post by awalton »

msla wrote: post #2

Realistically, I know this will be used to make pills. But the first thing I thought when I saw the headline was, "Wow. That's some interesting beer."

> But the first thing I thought when I saw the headline was, "Wow. That's some interesting beer."

You know those researchers have already thought that one through. They've each probably got a brew going in their basements as we speak...

Re: Psilocybin Produced in Yeast

#56

Post by ejolto »

TomMarius wrote: post #46
ejolto wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Norway you can get up to 6 months in prison for selling alcohol that is over 60% ethanol by volume. Up to 2 years if the offense is "particularly serious".

Oh yeah, I forgot about Norway. I have a (Czech) friend there, they have to pull down the sunblinds when they want to drink a beer. Seems insane to me, also a Czech guy.

That doesn't sound right. You are allowed to drink beer on your own property, or in bars. You are not allowed to drink beer in public spaces, but the police will enforce that differently depending on the region.

Re: Psilocybin Produced in Yeast

#57

Post by sysbin »

plurinshael wrote: post #37
asdff wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing it in yeast would be great if you are trying to get a consistent quantity of the drug. You could do vats at a time all genetically identical and producing the same yield batch over batch, and can scale up and down your operation for as much as you have vats and yeast food. This is something you want if you are going to press this into pills at a certain dose and give to people for psychiatric disorders, not f…

People with psychiatric disorders need spiritual journeys. Spiritual journeys heal and cleanse the mind, heal and cleanse the soul. Do not try to strip that away. The commodification of medicine troubles me--I prefer the perspective of sacred medicine. It goes roughly definitionally / tautologically: if something heals you, is it not sacred? And likewise, if something is sacred, it heals you. By definition. The idea…

> People with psychiatric disorders need spiritual journeys. Spiritual journeys heal and cleanse the mind, heal and cleanse the soul. Do not try to strip that away.

No opinion on the article or yours but where are you getting this opinion? Why or how, do psychiatric disorders need spiritual journeys.

Not all people believe in spiritual journeys or are capable of it. There is noting scientific about what you're suggesting that I'm aware about as well.

Re: Psilocybin Produced in Yeast

#59

Post by TomMarius »

ejolto wrote: post #56
TomMarius wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Norway. I have a (Czech) friend there, they have to pull down the sunblinds when they want to drink a beer. Seems insane to me, also a Czech guy.

That doesn't sound right. You are allowed to drink beer on your own property, or in bars. You are not allowed to drink beer in public spaces, but the police will enforce that differently depending on the region.

I think it has something to do with them having children.

Re: Psilocybin Produced in Yeast

#60

Post by ncmncm »

mikeg8 wrote: post #5

> "It's unfeasible and way too expensive to extract psilocybin from magic mushrooms and the best chemical synthesis methods require expensive and difficult to source starting substrates...” This is one of those situations where I feel like we (humans) are approaching it all wrong. Why over complicate it by trying to “extract” the psilocybin instead of treating it like marijuana and growing the mushrooms in highly con…

Not inducing extreme nausea seems like sufficient reason for a different process.
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