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Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

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Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#221

Post by LeoTinnitus »

gdulli wrote: post #177
pcr910303 wrote: post #91

Very surprised to find out country (city) in HN's top page! For people who are interested in current Korea's situation: There were 18 new cases two days ago, and 8 new cases yesterday. The number of new cases have been consistently falling since April 14th. 'Intense social distancing' was stopped yesterday (April 19th), and the Korean government is planning to drop the 'social distancing' policy on May 5th. Schools a…

> There were 18 new cases two days ago, and 8 new cases yesterday. > Korean government is planning to drop the 'social distancing' policy on May 5th. Are the people divided about whether it was a good idea to wait until new cases got this low before making decisions about moving forward? Or is there very broad support for the kind of discipline it takes to wait until May 5 despite the cases being so low already? Have…

I think it has more to do with forcing people in there homes cooped up for weeks on end.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#222

Post by pcr910303 »

gdulli wrote: post #177
pcr910303 wrote: post #91

Very surprised to find out country (city) in HN's top page! For people who are interested in current Korea's situation: There were 18 new cases two days ago, and 8 new cases yesterday. The number of new cases have been consistently falling since April 14th. 'Intense social distancing' was stopped yesterday (April 19th), and the Korean government is planning to drop the 'social distancing' policy on May 5th. Schools a…

> There were 18 new cases two days ago, and 8 new cases yesterday. > Korean government is planning to drop the 'social distancing' policy on May 5th. Are the people divided about whether it was a good idea to wait until new cases got this low before making decisions about moving forward? Or is there very broad support for the kind of discipline it takes to wait until May 5 despite the cases being so low already? Have…

> Are the people divided about whether it was a good idea to wait until new cases got this low before making decisions about moving forward?

People are generally agreeing that it's a good idea to wait b.c. they also think that there's still the possibility that a new wave of outbreak can happen.

> Or is there very broad support for the kind of discipline it takes to wait until May 5 despite the cases being so low already?

The policy of dropping the 'social distancing' was decided by the KCDC (consistently have less than 30 cases / cases which infection routes are unknown should be less than 5% of all new cases) on April 12th when the count has dropped less than 30 for the first time.

The government is still saying that if a new outbreak happens within the next two weeks, the day might be pushed back. It's still very elastic.

> Have people's opinions about the appropriate level of response become politicized? Have the facts and statistics and science of it all become politicized?

It's only targeting the people of Seoul, but 97% of all people agreed that the 'social distancing' policy should be dropped sometime soon, but 64% also agreed that April 19th was too fast - hence the May 5th decision.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#223

Post by stcredzero »

neurologic wrote: post #143
stcredzero wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how many lives could have been saved if we (western/European countries) didn’t have such an aversion to wearing face masks My wife and I were one of the few people wearing masks at the start of the pandemic, before the closing and work from home orders came. We were harassed by random people shouting at us. Also, I don't really get the societal penalty for disaster preparation. It's completely illogical. Jus…

> Also, I don't really get the societal penalty for disaster preparation. It makes a lot of sense: if you're preparing for a disaster, you won't go down with everyone else when disaster strikes. This creates some feeling of resentment which caused people to lash out at you.

you won't go down with everyone else when disaster strikes. This creates some feeling of resentment which caused people to lash out at you.

A well known psychologist was castigated a few years back for his likening people to lobsters. Yet here we have a perfect example of people acting like the proverbial lobsters who drag the escaping lobster back into the pot.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#224

Post by ghaff »

_ph_ wrote: post #100
Reason077 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “masks, masks, masks.” Exactly. I wonder how many lives could have been saved if we (western/European countries) didn’t have such an aversion to wearing face masks, even in a time of pandemic?

Well, first of all, there were no masks to wear. Not even enough to properly equip all medical personal. But yes, if people would wear masks whenever there is the risk that they are sick, be it Covid-19, the flu or just a cold, it would be beneficial.

Although only maybe half of the people around where I live are wearing masks of any variety, it doesn't hurt to wear a bandana or a buff or whatever when you go into a store. It probably doesn't do much good but it doesn't hurt and isn't any real effort.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#225

Post by lonelappde »

stcredzero wrote: post #119
Reason077 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “masks, masks, masks.” Exactly. I wonder how many lives could have been saved if we (western/European countries) didn’t have such an aversion to wearing face masks, even in a time of pandemic?

I wonder how many lives could have been saved if we (western/European countries) didn’t have such an aversion to wearing face masks My wife and I were one of the few people wearing masks at the start of the pandemic, before the closing and work from home orders came. We were harassed by random people shouting at us. Also, I don't really get the societal penalty for disaster preparation. It's completely illogical. Jus…

How do you look when you look at someone like they are scum?

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#226

Post by lonelappde »

pps43 wrote: post #186
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one has done a controlled study on this, so no one really knows. It ranges from zero to many. The reason government and medical signaling on the subject has been so mixed is that it isn’t apparent they are very effective, especially the jury rigged cloth masks that people are using.

> no one really knows Healthcare workers wear masks. I'm pretty sure they have a pretty good idea whether masks work.

Tools work, of course. But they don't always work well when handled by untrained amateurs.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#227

Post by lonelappde »

marvin wrote: post #161
_ph_ wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, first of all, there were no masks to wear. Not even enough to properly equip all medical personal. But yes, if people would wear masks whenever there is the risk that they are sick, be it Covid-19, the flu or just a cold, it would be beneficial.

You can make them yourself on a sewing machine, or even sewing by hand if you're desperate. My partner and I have made ~20 in some of our spare time in the last three weeks, for ourselves and our close family and friends. It's not high tech. Didn't even have to go out and buy more materials.

Most North Americans import their sewing from Asia and South America

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#228

Post by quicklime »

collyw wrote: post #77
nradov wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This video has a good explanation of why the Spanish policy is ineffective. https://unherd.com/thepost/coming-up-epidemiologist-prof-joh...

I didn't watch it, but a couple of the bullet points look pretty untrustworthy. Covid-19 is a “mild disease” and similar to the flu, and it was the novelty of the disease that scared people. It's a fair bit nastier, certainly in some cases, or the hospitals wouldn't be full. The actual fatality rate of Covid-19 is the region of 0.1% How can we be sure until we have widespread testing? At least 50% of the population o…

>> The actual fatality rate of Covid-19 is the region of 0.1%

> How can we be sure until we have widespread testing?

I think we can be sure that this is an incorrect number, with the data we have right now. At least 8448 people have died of COVID-19 in New York City, and if only 0.1% of the infected die, then we have 8,448,000 infected New Yorkers. This is the entire population of the city (including those who fled to other states) and would mean that we've reached herd immunity and can stop worrying about it now.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#229

Post by wolfhumble »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #109
dominotw wrote: post #45

how was south korea able to scale up their testing so fast. Where did the extra testing capacity come from. I've been really curious about this but haven't seen any good answers so far.

South Korea has far superior legal framework for pandemic compared to most western countries. As soon as there is a sign of a beginning pandemic, the medical professionals automatically get a massive increase in power and can start enacting lots of policies regardless of what politician think. They where probably better prepared as well. Preparedness varies a lot. In the Nordic region where I am from the Finns have d…

> In the Nordic region where I am from the Finns have done better than the rest of us because they are a prepper nation. They constantly prepare for the worst.

I am sure the Finns have done a fine job, but I don't think one can say that "the Finns have done better than the rest of us because they are a prepper nation" without studying this in detail. Being prepared is important, but just one part of the equation.

Travelling is also another important part (I am sure there are many others as well). Looking at passenger statistics, the Finnish population seems to be traveling less by air than most Nordic countries as well. I have not extracted domestic flights and if flights are done by the citizens of the country where the airports are located, so these numbers are ballpark figures, but I guess they can give some insight (although domestic flights might cause more rapid spread of virus as well).

Numbers from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_i...

Looking at the five biggest Airports in each country in: Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Iceland, I get the following passenger numbers for each country per year:

Iceland: 21,7 flights per person, per year.

Norway: 8,5 flights per person, per year.

Denmark: 6,2 flights per person, per year.

Finland: 4,4 flights per person, per year.

Sweden: 4,4 flights per person, per year.

The passenger numbers correlates relatively well with detected cases when the pandemi hit the Nordic Countries (chose March 4th, arbitrarily); Sweden and Denmark changes place:

====

Iceland – March 4, 1]: Coronavirus cases detected: 26 cases

Population-size adjusted, up to the size of Sweden (biggest country): 730 cases

====

Norway – March 4, 2]: Coronavirus cases detected: 59 cases

Population-size adjusted: 109

====

Sweden – March 4, 3]: Coronavirus cases detected: 52 cases

(Not Population-size adjusted)

====

Denmark – March 4, 4]: Coronavirus cases detected: 14 cases

Population-size adjusted: 25

====

Finland – March 4, 5]: Coronavirus cases detected: 7 cases

Population-size adjusted: 13

====

So when this awful pandemi is over, I think it is important to study all aspects of what happened in each country before one draws firm conclusions. And LEARN from the good stuff, and do more of that! :-)

Sources:

1] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/iceland/

2] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/norway/

3] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

4] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/denmark/

5] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/finland/

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#230

Post by recoil »

koyote wrote: post #207
collyw wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am stuck in my flat in Spain for the 5th week now. Just read they extended it another two, to 8 in total. I am wondering how other countries can be a bit more relaxed (UK and Belgium are allowed out for an our for exercise), or in the case of Sweeden a lot more relaxed, and are still managing to flatten their curves.

This is something I have not seen discussed or explained anywhere: Spain has such a hard lockdown and yet even after 5 weeks there are still thousands of cases every day. How are so many new people getting infected? The same has been true in Italy.

I've wondered this too. I can only assume it's because they send infected patients home, and they spread it to their families. That and hospitals & nursing homes, where infected staff may be spreading it between the patients/residents?
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