Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success • Hacker News Board

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#191

Post by joe_the_user » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 10:02 PM UTC

randomsearch wrote: post #173

joe_the_user wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To repeat: don't take this as a sign that Korea believes it has successfully managed the outbreak. South Korea has had fewer deaths than other nations, South Korea has a semi-open economy now. What better model for managing the outbreak is there? (The condition of Europe and the US look very dismal) It's kind of strange seeing this claim with no substantiation beside "repeat" apparently staying on the top of HN for a…

I think it’s too early to judge success. Most countries haven’t even been through one wave yet. We’re going to have to live with this for years.

"I think it’s too early to judge success."

Uh really?

South Korea suppressed an epidemic and strengthened the tools they had for suppressing epidemics, maintaining economic strength and social cohesion.

How are they not best position in the stage of managing the epidemic (the appropriate term used by the ggp).

Oh, I know one really bad answer people are ready with - they didn't let the virus burn through their population to acquire herd immunity. The degree to which any other approach is going to leave a society ready to deal with new waves of this seems really, really low. Certainly, current US events aren't preparing for any future crisis.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#192

Post by teruakohatu » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 10:02 PM UTC

noobermin wrote: post #179

colmvp wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually slightly worried as Singapore seemed to have handled the crisis quite well with only 1000ish cases for the longest time, but have now had cases balloon from only around 1350 total cases two weeks ago to 6000 today. Certainly, a lot of it has to with migrant workers and their living situations, but it also underscores how even when you have things under control, the virus can spread rapidly when your guar…

Tbh, SG should have never let people come particularly from countries with covid outbreaks during March. While spreading across the dorms is a big part of the internal spreading, it's clear the outbreak that started in March were clusters involving people coming to sg from abroad. Almost everyone shut down travel from China (particularly Wuhan) but no one shut down travel from Europe during March. Biggest mistake eve…

> but no one shut down travel from Europe during March. Biggest mistake ever

The USA did shut their border to a lot of Europe in early March. But at the time the WHO opposed border closure.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#193

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 10:08 PM UTC

randomsearch wrote: post #173

joe_the_user wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To repeat: don't take this as a sign that Korea believes it has successfully managed the outbreak. South Korea has had fewer deaths than other nations, South Korea has a semi-open economy now. What better model for managing the outbreak is there? (The condition of Europe and the US look very dismal) It's kind of strange seeing this claim with no substantiation beside "repeat" apparently staying on the top of HN for a…

I think it’s too early to judge success. Most countries haven’t even been through one wave yet. We’re going to have to live with this for years.

[deleted]

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#194

Post by chippy » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 10:11 PM UTC

dazc wrote: post #62

collyw wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am stuck in my flat in Spain for the 5th week now. Just read they extended it another two, to 8 in total. I am wondering how other countries can be a bit more relaxed (UK and Belgium are allowed out for an our for exercise), or in the case of Sweeden a lot more relaxed, and are still managing to flatten their curves.

The original guidance in the UK was to limit exercise to one hour but the actual law doesn't have a time limit. From what I see, people are generally behaving responsibility regards social distancing and, I assume, this is just a gamble our Govt took? Without making sweeping generalisations also, it isn't so common for young adults to spend much time with parents/grandparents/older relatives. So, I reckon, that's one…

I dont think the guidance ever said an hour, in the UK. it did say once a day though. Other places have the hour rule.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/full-guidance-on-...

"one form of exercise a day"

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#195

Post by narrator » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 10:12 PM UTC

joe_the_user wrote: post #188

narrator wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

South Korea: 234 deaths 8042 recovered. China: 4632 deaths, 77k recovered[1]. Their treatment protocol is an order of magnitude better than every other country. What are they doing that we're not? This is a huge glaring discrepancy. What's the difference between their treatment protocols and everyone else's? [1] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

What's the difference between their treatment protocols and everyone else's? It's mind boggling anyone has to ask now this has been going on so long but here goes. 1) They had an approach plan beforehand because they had observed the previous SARS epidemic and took the danger seriously. 2) They had "quarantine hotels" freely available for those who were positive to prevent them from infecting others. (Seattle has a f…

The thing I don't get is this explains how people didn't get sick. What it doesn't explain is how so many got better after getting sick compared to other countries.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#196

Post by hilbertseries » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 10:14 PM UTC

saiya-jin wrote: post #118

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one has done a controlled study on this, so no one really knows. It ranges from zero to many. The reason government and medical signaling on the subject has been so mixed is that it isn’t apparent they are very effective, especially the jury rigged cloth masks that people are using.

Even basic mask works quite well in stopping infected person spreading it further. This isn't some recent covid-related revelation, but long known fact. To say it for the 1000th time - this doesn't make you magically virus-proof, but significantly lowers the infection rate of those who have it. On large enough scale, this behavior makes significant difference in infection rates. I have yet to see a single western lea…

Los Angeles has mandated you have to wear a face covering when going into essential businesses.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#197

Post by toast0 » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 10:14 PM UTC

bb2018 wrote: post #24

zamfi wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bill Gates has literally been preparing the last 20 years to make enormous amounts of money on a forced vaccination program Is this one of those conspiracy theories I’ve been hearing about? Bill Gates’ foundation has been giving away money for decades. If you think he’s planning to make a bunch of money off “forced vaccination”, you’re stuck in the past — Gates doesn’t care about making more money, he cares about g…

Perhaps it would indulge the conspiracy theories too much - but I'd kinda love to see an actual breakdown of how something like this could ever make him money. Think of the huge amount of money he has lost from this in the other businesses he owns and think of all the money he invested in this for decades he could have invested in other lucrative industries. How much would he need from this supposed plan to even brea…

> how something like this could ever make him money.

It's really simple, less death from preventable diseases reduces poverty, and increasing the sustainable prices for Microsoft products and services. More revenue for Microsoft lifts stock price and billg's net worth.

Of course, the math doesn't add up if billg has to spend all his money to do it, and not just Microsoft reaps the benefits, which is why he's trying to get lots of other wealthy people to spend their money similarly --- then everyone who benefits can share the cost.

(Mostly toungue in cheek)

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#198

Post by zamfi » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 10:16 PM UTC

twomoretime wrote: post #144

zamfi wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you have to admit that you are taking for granted that his intentions are benign Huh? I made no such assumption. I simply speculated that he was doing this for one form of currency, and not another. He may well want to track everybody, I have no idea. But the whole premise is absurd. Bill Gates doesn’t need to inject tracking microchips into everyone through a forced vaccination program to “sway elections” — that’s…

>But the whole premise is absurd. Bill Gates doesn’t need to inject tracking microchips into everyone through a forced vaccination program to “sway elections” — that’s Hollywood supervillain-level garbage: a massively intricate complex plan that achieves so little. It’s like inventing a time machine just to use it to prove to your friend that he really did say that thing he denies he said in 1972. That's not what I'm…

> I'm just saying, if you implant an RFID digital certificate, you're effectively a walking uuid beacon.

We already carry beacons in our pockets all the time, and the government is already a subpoena away from getting that data. What do injected beacons buy Bill Gates exactly? Whatever it is, it feels like a ton of effort for not a ton of gain, tracking-wise, given that the beacons we have already broadcast their location over a much larger area.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#199

Post by toast0 » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 10:17 PM UTC

zamfi wrote: post #114

twomoretime wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he cares about getting the respect of his peer group & broader society. He’s not going to earn money off this, he’s going to earn respect. Whatever the case, you have to admit that you are taking for granted that his intentions are benign. There's no rule that billionaires have to be benevolent. There's a lot of soft power associated with a mandatory vaccination program but aside from that, the chipping that he is…

> you have to admit that you are taking for granted that his intentions are benign Huh? I made no such assumption. I simply speculated that he was doing this for one form of currency, and not another. He may well want to track everybody, I have no idea. But the whole premise is absurd. Bill Gates doesn’t need to inject tracking microchips into everyone through a forced vaccination program to “sway elections” — that’s…

> Bill Gates doesn’t need a crazy plan to sway elections — he can just buy tons of ads! He can fund others’ campaigns!

Buying tons of ads seemed to work pretty well for Bloomberg.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#200

Post by PeterisP » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 10:17 PM UTC

Nokinside wrote: post #66

daveFNbuck wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to completely isolate the country from the world. You just have to do testing and quarantining to ensure that infectious people and things aren't entering the country.

That's true but it's very hard to keep the system 100% tight. Governments can't prevent human trade or drug trade either. Just something like 1 infected entering per day or week means that you must keep up suppressing and tracing.

Sure, but keeping up testing, contact tracing and other South Korea-style suppression measures is no big deal compared to the severe restrictions most other countries have had to implement. It's very troubling to shut down the economy for a whole year, but it's certainly plausible to sustain those measures until a vaccine is ready.