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Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

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Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#161

Post by marvin »

_ph_ wrote: post #100
Reason077 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “masks, masks, masks.” Exactly. I wonder how many lives could have been saved if we (western/European countries) didn’t have such an aversion to wearing face masks, even in a time of pandemic?

Well, first of all, there were no masks to wear. Not even enough to properly equip all medical personal. But yes, if people would wear masks whenever there is the risk that they are sick, be it Covid-19, the flu or just a cold, it would be beneficial.

You can make them yourself on a sewing machine, or even sewing by hand if you're desperate. My partner and I have made ~20 in some of our spare time in the last three weeks, for ourselves and our close family and friends. It's not high tech.

Didn't even have to go out and buy more materials.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#162

Post by heartbreak »

lmeyerov wrote: post #23
3fe9a03ccd14ca5 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For businesses that will probably never return.

They'll be replaced, but the owners, employees, and loved ones who die won't.

Can we please abandon this trope that economic impacts don't have health implications of their own?

> “With the global recession gathering pace, there could be hundreds of thousands of additional child deaths in 2020”, the Secretary-General warned.

> This scenario would effectively reverse progress made in reducing infant mortality over the past two to three years.

https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/04/1061892

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#163

Post by lbeltrame »

varjag wrote: post #147
collyw wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is expected that 70% of the population will get coronavirus then we will have herd immunity. The lock down is about stopping the healthcare systems getting overwhelmed (that will cause unnecessary deaths). That's the way I understand things. The same number of deaths will occur are likely to occur in the long term unless Sweden's ICU beds get full. If anyone has an alternative interpretation I am open to hearing i…

The eventual arrival of a vaccine may allow the states who are flattening the curve to have lower total amount of casualties.

Or drugs to help the clinical management of the disease (which have a chance - not a certainty - to arrive earlier than a vaccine).

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#164

Post by pnw_hazor »

dominotw wrote: post #45

how was south korea able to scale up their testing so fast. Where did the extra testing capacity come from. I've been really curious about this but haven't seen any good answers so far.

"Korean officials enacted a key reform, allowing the government to give near-instantaneous approval to testing systems in an emergency. Within weeks of the current outbreak in Wuhan, China, four Korean companies had manufactured tests from a World Health Organization recipe and, as a result, the country quickly had a system that could assess 10,000 people a day."

https://www.propublica.org/article/how-south-korea-scaled-co...

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#165

Post by leesec »

dominotw wrote: post #45

how was south korea able to scale up their testing so fast. Where did the extra testing capacity come from. I've been really curious about this but haven't seen any good answers so far.

Before the virus affected anyone in Korea the president brought together many heads of industry, and ramped up masks/testing/essential item production.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#166

Post by marvin »

Hamuko wrote: post #48
collyw wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am stuck in my flat in Spain for the 5th week now. Just read they extended it another two, to 8 in total. I am wondering how other countries can be a bit more relaxed (UK and Belgium are allowed out for an our for exercise), or in the case of Sweeden a lot more relaxed, and are still managing to flatten their curves.

Sweden has a pretty high number of COVID-19 deaths, so I'm not sure if I'd like to follow their model.

When this is done and everyone is vaccinated, Sweden will have at least 5x the number of deaths per capita of their neighbors in the west and southwest. And the people of Sweden will still have strong support for their authorities' decisive response to the epidemic. My prediction.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#167

Post by beagle3 »

coldtea wrote: post #150
gnusty_gnurc wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He’s pretty much right though. It spreads worse than the flu and Dr. Ioaniddis recently published a serological study showing it seems to have a mortality rate similar to the flu. An overwhelming majority of people who get it will not die. Ioaniddis et. al. suggests the evidence points towards 1~2 out of a thousand mortality rate. We should not be panicking. We should be mitigating the disease based on the evidence a…

> He’s pretty much right though. It spreads worse than the flu Err, it spreads much better, several times more than the flu. > and Dr. Ioaniddis recently published a serological study showing it seems to have a mortality rate similar to the flu Dr. Ioaniddis study was cherry-picked and bogus, much like the studies he was famous for criticizing...

[citation needed] about cherry picking. The limits of their scheme was acknowledged and discussed in the paper. What cherry picking are you referring to that wasn’t addressed?

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#168

Post by lbeltrame »

heartbreak wrote: post #157
grey-area wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US was disastrous at testing initially, but now they are doing a lot of tests (several million). Unfortunately given the stage they are at (infections widespread, still no national lockdown, some states opening up again because they think it's all over), it's too late for test and trace.

> some states opening up again because they think it's all over This is unequivocally not why some states are preparing to relax the so-called "safer at home" orders. Waiting until "it's all over" was not the goal of safer-at-home. Flattening the curve in order to prevent an immediately overwhelmed healthcare system was the goal. In multiple US states, the curve is acceptably flattened (or is expected to be in the ne…

> Waiting until "it's all over" was not the goal of safer-at-home.

Someone should tell that to the Italian authorities. At least until recently, some public statements seemed to inch in that direction ("zero new infections"), although more recently they realized that this is hardly possible at this point (especially if the estimates of the actual vs effective cases are true - talking about at least one order of magnitude).

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#169

Post by nerfhammer »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #54
dominotw wrote: post #45

how was south korea able to scale up their testing so fast. Where did the extra testing capacity come from. I've been really curious about this but haven't seen any good answers so far.

It is am extremely stark example of the value of maintaining manufacturing capacity in your country. Korea can makes tests, so they have tests. Seegene, a company that makes Covid-19 testing equipment is in Korea. They just needed approval and to ramp up manufacturing. For most countries, like the US, we don't have the manufacturing ability anymore, so we have to go beg and buy tests while we figure how to make again…

The CDC tried to manufacture it's own test but badly botched it, while the FDA blocked anyone from using or developing any other test than the CDC's.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#170

Post by pnw_hazor »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #109
dominotw wrote: post #45

how was south korea able to scale up their testing so fast. Where did the extra testing capacity come from. I've been really curious about this but haven't seen any good answers so far.

South Korea has far superior legal framework for pandemic compared to most western countries. As soon as there is a sign of a beginning pandemic, the medical professionals automatically get a massive increase in power and can start enacting lots of policies regardless of what politician think. They where probably better prepared as well. Preparedness varies a lot. In the Nordic region where I am from the Finns have d…

Finland has worries about Russia. South Korea has worries about North Korea. And, Taiwan worries about China.

Interesting that three of the best prepared countries have valid real world concerns about their adjacent neighbors.

While some nations surrounded by oceans and/or friendly countries are taking a beating.

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