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Covid-19’s impact on Tor

blog.torproject.org

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Re: Covid-19’s impact on Tor

#171

Post by chucky_z »

nbar1 wrote: post #131
wegs wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel bad for the spiral here. We're now seeing the second-order of the depression spiral. * First step was laying off people without jobs which could be done remotely. * Second step is laying off people who could still be productive from home, but where there's less demand. Unless we act with boldness and resoluteness, this will just continue to feed in on itself as the nation collapses.

Unfortunately for me, I was a remote worker already (worked there for a month shy of 6 years). Hopefully, my position (React/Node FS Dev) is in high enough demand after all this to resume working remotely with a comfortable salary. I've already had offers for remote but they require me to relocate after the pandemic is over, which is really clogging up the job boards.

Why not accept a job and simply decline to move?

I understand it's a shitty thing to do, but at the end of the day your health/sanity is more important than some companies. If you have a good manager/coworkers you can even get them to bat for you to stay, as a remote worker.

Re: Covid-19’s impact on Tor

#172

Post by nbar1 »

chucky_z wrote: post #171
nbar1 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately for me, I was a remote worker already (worked there for a month shy of 6 years). Hopefully, my position (React/Node FS Dev) is in high enough demand after all this to resume working remotely with a comfortable salary. I've already had offers for remote but they require me to relocate after the pandemic is over, which is really clogging up the job boards.

Why not accept a job and simply decline to move? I understand it's a shitty thing to do, but at the end of the day your health/sanity is more important than some companies. If you have a good manager/coworkers you can even get them to bat for you to stay, as a remote worker.

Because, as you said, it's a shitty thing to do. I have the skills, experience, and finances to find a job where we can have a mutually beneficial relationship without trying to pull one over on them.

Re: Covid-19’s impact on Tor

#173

Post by andrepd »

chance_state wrote: post #150
andrepd wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really is not. Right to physical assembly is something that should be restricted in the middle of a global pandemic , since that right cannot trump the right of life of hundreds of thousands of people. Same for the right to travel. Rights such as free speech or right to private property may be broken in more extreme cases such as war. Pretending that nuanced reality doesn't exist is the definition of "rights absol…

Could not disagree more. The entire point of enumerating rights in the constitution and it's amendments is so that they are _not_ subject to changing circumstances.

Let's put it this way: you have a right to life, but this right may be suspended in certain delimited circumstances: if you're posing an imminent threat to someone, or in certain places maybe if you're merely trespassing. You have a right to free speech, yet this is again restricted in many circumstances. You cannot: lie under oath, make a false accusation, make a libelous statement...

Pretending that a small sentence can encompass all the possible nuance of the multiple situations that arise in our messy reality is being an "absolutist".

Re: Covid-19’s impact on Tor

#174

Post by fierarul »

anigbrowl wrote: post #51
EamonnMR wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://my.fsf.org/donate/ https://sfconservancy.org/donate/ https://www.apache.org/foundation/contributing.html https://opensource.org/donate https://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/donate/

The FSF's total assets are less than $2m. Apache's under $5m. I mean something with billion $ capitalization instead of peanuts.

I assume you are aware Apache does not pay for any kind of software development.

They only spend money on some minor infrastructure to have JIRA and the mailing lists and build servers running; plus administrative / legal personnel.

All the new "Apache" software is written by volunteers, the mirror system is provided free by 3rd parties, code hosting is almost all on GitHub.

So, what would they need the extra money for? Another JIRA instance?

By comparison the FreeBSD foundation does hand out grants to fix parts of their OS which they deem relevant and in need. Would be nice to see something similar in other foundations.

Re: Covid-19’s impact on Tor

#175

Post by burrows »

Noos wrote: post #163
anigbrowl wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public means non-profit and wholly transparent, explicitly dedicated to the creation and expansion of a software commons. It infuriates me that people who work on important projects like numpy or Tor which are very widely used have trouble paying the bills and keeping a roof over their head. I don't make it because I don't work in the software industry and don't have access to large social or financial capital networ…

The problem is that this what you get when you make a commons without reciprocity or equality. Reciprocity means the producer/upkeeper and consumer each put something into the commons that balances out mutual needs. if only a few people can create or maintain, the many users must contribute in a lesser fashion to enable them. Equality means that everyone create or maintain, so the burden isn't shared on a small group…

The idea of "everyone" owning something, ie a commons, is a contradiction. If everyone owns it, then no one owns it.

Assume the thing has exactly one owner. Then "reciprocity" and "equality" are addressed by the owner charging a fee to use the thing. Currency exchanged by consumers compensates the owner-operator's work.

Re: Covid-19’s impact on Tor

#176

Post by anigbrowl »

fierarul wrote: post #174
anigbrowl wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FSF's total assets are less than $2m. Apache's under $5m. I mean something with billion $ capitalization instead of peanuts.

I assume you are aware Apache does not pay for any kind of software development. They only spend money on some minor infrastructure to have JIRA and the mailing lists and build servers running; plus administrative / legal personnel. All the new "Apache" software is written by volunteers, the mirror system is provided free by 3rd parties, code hosting is almost all on GitHub. So, what would they need the extra money f…

I'm responding to the person who cited it above. Please try reading the whole thread instead of just the last post.

Re: Covid-19’s impact on Tor

#177

Post by anigbrowl »

chrisco255 wrote: post #38
anigbrowl wrote: post #2

Why isn't there a public open-source fund to finance open projects (ie one to which the donors have no clue or control where the funds will eventually go; they're disbursed on the basis of how widely something is used)?

See Gitcoin: https://gitcoin.co/landing

This looks promising, thanks!

Re: Covid-19’s impact on Tor

#178

Post by tchaffee »

zipwitch wrote: post #169
tchaffee wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The options you described just leave us with a less direct version of what we have now. Someone owns and runs media companies because it is a source of influence and income. Someone will run the AI-mediated Blockchains of Truth, etc for the same reasons. All you will accomplish is shifting the power around momentarily, perhaps even to worse actors than we have now. But even if your ideas are very vague they are at le…

Which is fine. It's a tough problem, and I have no expectation that a random poster (myself included) is going to suddenly come up with a perfect solution. As we search for solutions, there are at least two fallacious lines of reasoning that need to be rejected: Something must be done. This is something. This must be done! And, This won't work. Therefore, nothing will work. We should do nothing! I understand and agre…

Did someone here embrace "This won't work. Therefore, nothing will work. We should do nothing!"? I don't see that in this thread, but feel free to point it out if I missed it.

I simply started with a seemingly easy question: who decides what is and is not fake news? Trying to answer that question yourself hopefully helps illustrate just how challenging it is to find a solution that isn't worse than the problem. But hopefully with enough pondering on that question, one does start to lean in the direction that any solution must include individuals ultimately deciding for themselves what is and isn't fake news.

Does that imply nothing will work? For sure it does not. But it might imply we are already there: the best cure for fake news might be working harder to make real news more persuasive. It could be a boring matter of will and effort - a lot of grunt work. By talking to the journalists engaged in that work, you would uncover the actual challenges and perhaps ideas around the technologies that could better empower that change. Or not. The internet itself was supposed to help us become better informed. Clicks + adverts + automatic measurement, rinse, and repeat; proved that ideal wrong. At least for now.

Re: Covid-19’s impact on Tor

#179

Post by zrth »

willis936 wrote: post #153
Renaud wrote: post #19

They are too dependent on government sponsorship. 80% of their funding comes from the US government in some shape. I would imagine that a project of that importance deserves to be able to be self-sufficient. A US$2M budget/year is not that much, (m|b)illionaires making their money from the Internet could easily sponsor the project. Better yet, having grass-root sponsorship is even more important. Maybe they need mark…

But removing fed funding would mean they have to remove their honeypot backdoors.

Do you have anything to back these claims up?

Re: Covid-19’s impact on Tor

#180

Post by kragen »

projektfu wrote: post #34
kragen wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That precedent was comprehensively reversed by the 1950s.

Cool, hopefully that's the case. I'm not familiar enough with the case law to know. It's just a salient point of my high school education.

My deepest condolences on your high school "education".
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