A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t • Hacker News Board

Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t

#81

Post by rlanday » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 6:41 PM UTC

hanoz wrote: post #60

There must be a lot of people thinking they won't be getting the full experience if they start this year. I wonder if this will be the pin which pops the credit fueled runaway costs bubble? Anyone who ends up not bothering with it at all will at least have great reason for not having a degree - well I was all set to go to such and such, but then coronavirus, so I started work for a while instead, and just really got…

I don’t see how the college bubble continues as-is after this. What we had before was basically a common knowledge problem. Everyone knows college is a ripoff and, aside from a small number of degrees, the students are mostly just getting subsidized by taxpayers to drink and smoke pot for four years while the rest of us work and pay taxes. But, we didn’t all know that everyone knows that. There was also a coordination problem in that even if everyone is skeptical of the value provided by the experience, the pool of college graduates was still some combination of smarter and more conscientious than the pool of non-college graduates, so there was a signaling effect to going to college. But now a lot of smart, conscientious young people have an excuse to bail out of the system at the same time. I think many of those young people will end up doing something with this time that sounds better to employers than “I spent $80k a year living in my parents’ basement watching ungraded online lecture videos that were inferior to ones I could watch for free on YouTube.”

Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t

#82

Post by intorio » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 6:44 PM UTC

pfranz wrote: post #74

lilt wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you read the article. It's telling people to defer a year because of coronavirus, not the usual college is not worth it schpeel. That being said, I disagree with your advice in two cases: 1) Most top schools offer free tuition if your family income is below a generous threshold (like $150k). If you can get into Stanford and meet this criteria, it's cheaper than your local community college. 2) If you ar…

> 2) If you are studying a technical field, even if you are average, a degree has greater ROI than just about anything else. You can pay off your debt in the first few years out of school and continue earning dividends for the rest of your life. What's the downside to going to a community college? Where I grew up the credits were transferable. They did say, "Most people spend the first two years figuring stuff out".…

Transfer spots can be more competitive than Freshmen spots. This would especially be true if more people were doing it.

Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t

#83

Post by electriclove » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 6:44 PM UTC

ForHackernews wrote: post #34

perl4ever wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is the negative consequence you are envisioning from 2 years at community college and 2 years at your in-state 4-year school, vs. all four years at the latter? The typical alternative that people need to be guided away from is one of the for-profit "career" schools that doesn't have transferable credits and is way more expensive than community college.

A lot of people I went to high school with chose to stay home and go to community college to figure things out. Most of them puttered around for a year or two, studying part time while working, eventually getting distracted and abandoning their degree plans. I think I can count on one hand the kids who actually transferred to a 4-year university and finished their bachelors degree. I guess dropping out of a community…

Not sure why you are getting downvoted. What you said is actually true for many that go to community colleges. Do people disagree about this?

I think there are many positives to attend a community college first but there are also several drawbacks that need to be acknowledged.

Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t

#84

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 6:45 PM UTC

t-writescode wrote: post #67

toomuchtodo wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money buys options. Options are freedom. Don’t let others gate you unnecessarily. We all operate in a physical world that doesn’t care about credentials as long as you adhere to the laws of physics (caveat aside for professionals that require credentials by law, such as the medical profession and such). Going to school in another country that’s more reasonable about costs (Europe comes to mind) is also an option. Con…

Or honestly state colleges. There's some really great state colleges in the US and they're far less expensive than some of the other options out there.

[deleted]

Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t

#85

Post by rlanday » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 6:47 PM UTC

solidasparagus wrote: post #71

t-writescode wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do have a job at a cybersecurity firm where I'm a part-time developer, and my boss would probably convert me to full-time. You already have a job and your boss has made you a developer. One thing you'll get in school that you won't get on the job, in general, is algorithm training. This is an important step for developing the best code you can and being exposed to weird and different ways to write things. This is…

As a counterpoint - having an elite school on your resume is beneficial for your career. It won't get you jobs, but it will get you interviews and can help you in the interviews (the interviewer's assumptions about you tend to be positive).

That was back when an elite degree meant that you had valuable social connections and not that you spent $80k a year watching ungraded lecture videos in your parents’ basement.

Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t

#86

Post by SpicyLemonZest » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 6:47 PM UTC

serf wrote: post #70

wikibob wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. Graduation rates are drastically lower from community colleges. There is vastly less academic support available. The people around you will be vastly less ambitious. This will rub off on you. Yes 4 year university is now overpriced in America. But if you can, go to a 4 year university. Yes maybe go to an in-state university instead of out of state if that is cheaper, or go where you get the best financial a…

>Graduation rates are drastically lower from community colleges. how is that a useful metric for anything, really? Look how many extra programs pull people into community colleges, and look at the difference in accessibility between community colleges and universities. A stay-at-home mother isn't going to be eyeballing Stanford as a viable way to get her nursing degree with night classes. In the same instance, a stay…

It's a metric of exactly what you're describing. Going to a community college means immersing yourself in a community of people who see academics as a more of a luxury and less of a necessity; people who have other priorities in life, and will only participate to the extent that it doesn't interfere with their more important goals and obligations.

Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t

#87

Post by resu_nimda » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 6:49 PM UTC

lilt wrote: post #52

frankbreetz wrote: post #18

As a millennial college graduate, my number one piece of advice to college bound high schoolers is do the first two years at community college. The debt is not worth the experience. Most people spend the first two years figuring stuff out, community college is a great place to do that. I didn't even know this was an option until after college and I feel failed by my high school college advisors. Unless you are very c…

I don't think you read the article. It's telling people to defer a year because of coronavirus, not the usual college is not worth it schpeel. That being said, I disagree with your advice in two cases: 1) Most top schools offer free tuition if your family income is below a generous threshold (like $150k). If you can get into Stanford and meet this criteria, it's cheaper than your local community college. 2) If you ar…

2) If you are studying a technical field, even if you are average, a degree has greater ROI than just about anything else. You can pay off your debt in the first few years out of school and continue earning dividends for the rest of your life.

He said the first two years. In a lot of cases you can still get the same 4-year degree with two years of CC if done properly, which would actually result in a higher ROI.

Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t

#88

Post by electriclove » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 6:52 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #38

t-writescode wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do have a job at a cybersecurity firm where I'm a part-time developer, and my boss would probably convert me to full-time. You already have a job and your boss has made you a developer. One thing you'll get in school that you won't get on the job, in general, is algorithm training. This is an important step for developing the best code you can and being exposed to weird and different ways to write things. This is…

I have no college education because decades ago, I was in the same situation as OP: had a job in hand, so I went to work instead of college. It was the best choice I ever made. I never worked somewhere that required a degree, three years into my career was making six figures, and have made at least that for the next ~20 years of my career. I had no student debt, or school expenses. I have had employers offer reimburs…

Do you feel not having a degree has slowed your career progression?

Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t

#89

Post by toomuchtodo » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 6:53 PM UTC

electriclove wrote: post #88

toomuchtodo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no college education because decades ago, I was in the same situation as OP: had a job in hand, so I went to work instead of college. It was the best choice I ever made. I never worked somewhere that required a degree, three years into my career was making six figures, and have made at least that for the next ~20 years of my career. I had no student debt, or school expenses. I have had employers offer reimburs…

Do you feel not having a degree has slowed your career progression?

Not at all. I’ve worked for startups, enterprises, the US government, and provide guidance to Congressional representatives on an ongoing basis on technology policy. No one worth working for has asked for a degree.

I still get inquiries from Amazon and Facebook for roles. Not Google, but I’d never work for them anyway (nor Facebook or Amazon, for completeness).

I also intend to run for public office, which has age constraints, but no educational requirement.

Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t

#90

Post by devNoise » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 6:58 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #54

frankbreetz wrote: post #18

As a millennial college graduate, my number one piece of advice to college bound high schoolers is do the first two years at community college. The debt is not worth the experience. Most people spend the first two years figuring stuff out, community college is a great place to do that. I didn't even know this was an option until after college and I feel failed by my high school college advisors. Unless you are very c…

If you have a scholarship, this advice may not be good. I think most scholarships expect you to start that fall; if you don't, you may lose the scholarship. (Some or all of them will accept a "gap year", but most won't accept you going to community college for two years and then trying to take the scholarship. Or at least, that's how I think it is. Your mileage may vary, so if you have a scholarship offer, check the…

I'm on the fence about how scholarships should factor into the total cost of college. I feel like there is a decent amount of scholarship money freshmen year that disappears after that. So that the student ends up with a lot of student loans debt to finish school. It's all well and good that freshmen at an expensive college will be cheaper than some alternate school. Though is it really going to be cheaper overall? I don't think so and this is how lots of students end up with to much student debt.