Covid-19’s impact on Tor • Hacker News Board

Re: Covid-19’s impact on Tor

#11

Post by yingw787 » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 2:09 AM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #10

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ACLU has largely transitioned away from civil rights absolutism towards progressive advocacy. They haven't entirely tossed it out the door, and still sometimes defend the civil rights of non-progressive groups, but the modern ACLU definitely feels it's important to contextualize liberties.

Agreed, they have significantly changed over even just the last few years. It makes me a little sad, because we have plenty of progressive advocacy groups, and I appreciated the ACLU trying to be more focused.

Yeah, that is interesting. I donate to the ACLU monthly and I haven't gotten anything related to the pandemic, just regular board of directors voting.

...are they working on the EARN IT act by any chance?

Re: Covid-19’s impact on Tor

#12

Post by mc32 » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 2:11 AM UTC

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #8

mc32 wrote: post #7

This got me to think about the ACLU and what they are doing. I see some issues about accommodating justice and other issues affected by the pandemic and the intersection with liberties... it's more about looking at the compounding effect than protecting against fundamental change and fundamental threats to civil rights. But I don’t see any take on any measures governments have taken to kerb civil rights in the time o…

The ACLU has largely transitioned away from civil rights absolutism towards progressive advocacy. They haven't entirely tossed it out the door, and still sometimes defend the civil rights of non-progressive groups, but the modern ACLU definitely feels it's important to contextualize liberties.

It seems you’re right and it’s a shame that in this time when a few governments are taking advantage of the situation they don’t have their ears perked and tuned to ensure governments (local, state, fed) aren’t going overboard, impinging rights, or looking to erode them. I mean this affects the whole US constituency.

Re: Covid-19’s impact on Tor

#13

Post by SpicyLemonZest » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 2:14 AM UTC

yingw787 wrote: post #11

rootusrootus wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, they have significantly changed over even just the last few years. It makes me a little sad, because we have plenty of progressive advocacy groups, and I appreciated the ACLU trying to be more focused.

Yeah, that is interesting. I donate to the ACLU monthly and I haven't gotten anything related to the pandemic, just regular board of directors voting. ...are they working on the EARN IT act by any chance?

Their current efforts are focused on getting lots of people released from jails and prisons, since they might catch COVID-19 if they're in jail.

Re: Covid-19’s impact on Tor

#14

Post by mc32 » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 2:17 AM UTC

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #13

yingw787 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that is interesting. I donate to the ACLU monthly and I haven't gotten anything related to the pandemic, just regular board of directors voting. ...are they working on the EARN IT act by any chance?

Their current efforts are focused on getting lots of people released from jails and prisons, since they might catch COVID-19 if they're in jail.

See I don’t get it. If one of these people who get early release so much as go fishing somewhere they can end up back in jail. That seems perverse to me.

Re: Covid-19’s impact on Tor

#15

Post by bigiain » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 2:18 AM UTC

justicezyx wrote: post #4

What's the founding source of Tor project? I thought people would be more willing to support them in current situations. Assuming they are on some crowd sourced funding sources.

DARPA, National Science Foundation, and Craigslist - amongst others...

https://www.zdnet.com/article/half-of-the-tor-projects-fundi... (2017 numbers article)

https://www.torproject.org/about/sponsors/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tor_Project#Funding

(And people wonder why I'm stocking up on tinfoil millinery supplies...)

Re: Covid-19’s impact on Tor

#16

Post by cbsks » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 2:19 AM UTC

I’m confused by this... why are layoffs happening so suddenly? Did they recently lose some large corporate sponsors? How many donations have been cut off over the last few months? Do they not have money in the bank?

From my perspective it looks like they have had ongoing financial problems, and are using this as a convenient scapegoat to cut expenses.

Re: Covid-19’s impact on Tor

#17

Post by baby » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 2:21 AM UTC

cbsks wrote: post #16

I’m confused by this... why are layoffs happening so suddenly? Did they recently lose some large corporate sponsors? How many donations have been cut off over the last few months? Do they not have money in the bank? From my perspective it looks like they have had ongoing financial problems, and are using this as a convenient scapegoat to cut expenses.

It doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. Imagine if your company was going through a financially difficult time, and firing becomes the only path forward. This can greatly impact the team's moral and trust in management. Using the crisis as a scapegoat makes it easier to accept the event.

Re: Covid-19’s impact on Tor

#18

Post by projektfu » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 2:28 AM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #10

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ACLU has largely transitioned away from civil rights absolutism towards progressive advocacy. They haven't entirely tossed it out the door, and still sometimes defend the civil rights of non-progressive groups, but the modern ACLU definitely feels it's important to contextualize liberties.

Agreed, they have significantly changed over even just the last few years. It makes me a little sad, because we have plenty of progressive advocacy groups, and I appreciated the ACLU trying to be more focused.

I haven't seen a test case, but I wonder if they'd still come out and support unpopular speakers?

https://www.aclu.org/other/aclu-history-taking-stand-free-sp...

That was a classically apt appearance because no doubt a hypothetical Nazi state would ban the ACLU.

I've been personally torn about this myself. I got chewed out once by a professor for advocating that people turn out to oppose David Horowitz. My opinion was that his speech was foul and needed obvious opposition, but I didn't want him shouted down. I thought that his schtick of going to universities promoting "academic freedom" which basically meant being able to tell liberal professors to shut up was dreck. However, he was shouted down and couldn't be heard. I felt bad about that, and agreed with the professor in the end. But, in a way, the dude was getting a taste of his own medicine: he certainly advocated for deplatforming people himself.

Re: Covid-19’s impact on Tor

#19

Post by Renaud » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 2:28 AM UTC

They are too dependent on government sponsorship. 80% of their funding comes from the US government in some shape.

I would imagine that a project of that importance deserves to be able to be self-sufficient. A US$2M budget/year is not that much, (m|b)illionaires making their money from the Internet could easily sponsor the project.

Better yet, having grass-root sponsorship is even more important. Maybe they need marketing help more than anything else?

Re: Covid-19’s impact on Tor

#20

Post by bsder » Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 2:29 AM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #7

This got me to think about the ACLU and what they are doing. I see some issues about accommodating justice and other issues affected by the pandemic and the intersection with liberties... it's more about looking at the compounding effect than protecting against fundamental change and fundamental threats to civil rights. But I don’t see any take on any measures governments have taken to kerb civil rights in the time o…

> But I don’t see any take on any measures governments have taken to kerb civil rights in the time of the pandemic

Part of it is that I expect that the ACLU doesn't really want to take on cases that are simply going to be moot once the state of emergency ends. I expect that their ears will perk up a little more about things that don't go back to "normal" once everything is done with.

And part of it is probably not wanting court cases to actually go through the courts unless they are sure they can win. If you send a case through to the Supreme Court right now, you may lose and set a really bad precedent.

The ACLU is likely better off fighting by lobbying and getting laws passed rather than using the courts right now.