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Mainframes Are Having a Moment

spectrum.ieee.org

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Re: Mainframes Are Having a Moment

#31

Post by jimbokun »

pjmlp wrote: post #25
cultus wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

COBOL is unstructured. It doesn't even have functions. When you've got some million+ line tangled mass that has all kinds of undocumented behavior, it's really better just to add more duct tape and punt it off to the poor bastard who actually has to fix it in 20 years.

Since 1985 that COBOL can be structured, and since 2002 object oriented as well, with the latest ISO update being done in 2014 Besides compiling to native code, there are compilers that target JVM and CLR as well.

> there are compilers that target JVM and CLR

So could you wrap it and slowly add new features and replace pieces with Java code over time, using JVM for interop?

Re: Mainframes Are Having a Moment

#32

Post by w3ll_w3ll_w3ll »

scottlocklin wrote: post #28
rtempaccount1 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was at a talk about mainframe security recently where the state of play with one company was, there were three users in their admins group for the mainframe, two had retired, and the third was past retirement age... When you combine retirements with decades of under-documented code doing critical functions, it's not a recipe for good long term success...

I dunno; rewriting it in some shit tier EC2 FunNewLang framework that changes every year doesn't sound like a recipe for long term success either. When I look at how mainframes work, and how "clouds" work, I wonder at how imbecilic IBM management (or one of their competitors) must have been to not capture that value in the first place.

"The Eternal Mainframe"

http://www.winestockwebdesign.com/Essays/Eternal_Mainframe.h...

Re: Mainframes Are Having a Moment

#33

Post by jasonjayr »

vageli wrote: post #27
DebtDeflation wrote: post #3

The surge in demand is being driven almost entirely by state unemployment systems. Most of these systems haven't seen a surge in unemployment claims since the 2009 recession and haven't had to change the underlying rules governing eligibility in even longer. Once the systems are patched and/or the surge in new claims subsides, 90% of this sudden demand for "Cobalt programmers" will evaporate. It's one thing for retir…

> The surge in demand is being driven almost entirely by state unemployment systems. Most of these systems haven't seen a surge in unemployment claims since the 2009 recession and haven't had to change the underlying rules governing eligibility in even longer. Once the systems are patched and/or the surge in new claims subsides, 90% of this sudden demand for "Cobalt programmers" will evaporate. I generally agree but…

If you had to chose an environment or programming language that you expect to survive, in regards to talent pool + tech availability for 30+ years today, what would you choose?

Re: Mainframes Are Having a Moment

#34

Post by 0x445442 »

wyldfire wrote: post #24

IMO the hard part isn't learning COBOL -- that's just another programming language. It's learning the whole operating environment that comes with it -- mainframes. Stuff like JCL, EBCDIC, PDS. I did this for a year or so back in 1999. It felt very ancient back then. If you invest your time in gaining expertise with these technologies, you are not doing your career any favors.

Depends on your point of reference. If you buy into the ecology you could build a sane career where experience actually meant something instead of being level set every two years by the new shiny tech stack that's going to save the industry.

Re: Mainframes Are Having a Moment

#35

Post by jabedude »

jasonjayr wrote: post #33
vageli wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The surge in demand is being driven almost entirely by state unemployment systems. Most of these systems haven't seen a surge in unemployment claims since the 2009 recession and haven't had to change the underlying rules governing eligibility in even longer. Once the systems are patched and/or the surge in new claims subsides, 90% of this sudden demand for "Cobalt programmers" will evaporate. I generally agree but…

If you had to chose an environment or programming language that you expect to survive, in regards to talent pool + tech availability for 30+ years today, what would you choose?

C + Linux. That seems to be the most promising tech with regards to longevity that exists today.

Re: Mainframes Are Having a Moment

#36

Post by dfboyd »

I think this is just an IBM PR piece. It ticks all the boxes: quotes from IBM customers, quotes from IBM staff, mentions the "Master the Mainframe" contest. You can tell because when it says "mainframe" it doesn't mean "any large computer", it means "Something descended from the IBM 360".

Re: Mainframes Are Having a Moment

#37

Post by orbifold »

jasonjayr wrote: post #33
vageli wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The surge in demand is being driven almost entirely by state unemployment systems. Most of these systems haven't seen a surge in unemployment claims since the 2009 recession and haven't had to change the underlying rules governing eligibility in even longer. Once the systems are patched and/or the surge in new claims subsides, 90% of this sudden demand for "Cobalt programmers" will evaporate. I generally agree but…

If you had to chose an environment or programming language that you expect to survive, in regards to talent pool + tech availability for 30+ years today, what would you choose?

Both C++ and Java are pretty obvious choices aren't they? Both have probably billion lines of code or more investments into them and are the backbone of a huge number of very successful companies.

Re: Mainframes Are Having a Moment

#38

Post by gonzo41 »

jasonjayr wrote: post #33
vageli wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The surge in demand is being driven almost entirely by state unemployment systems. Most of these systems haven't seen a surge in unemployment claims since the 2009 recession and haven't had to change the underlying rules governing eligibility in even longer. Once the systems are patched and/or the surge in new claims subsides, 90% of this sudden demand for "Cobalt programmers" will evaporate. I generally agree but…

If you had to chose an environment or programming language that you expect to survive, in regards to talent pool + tech availability for 30+ years today, what would you choose?

Java, with a lot of apache commons libraries and postgrees databases. They've both been around 25,34 years respectively and will survive probably about the same into the future as long as java stays sensible and slows the rate at which is has spawned features like c++

Re: Mainframes Are Having a Moment

#39

Post by [deleted] »

jasonjayr wrote: post #33
vageli wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The surge in demand is being driven almost entirely by state unemployment systems. Most of these systems haven't seen a surge in unemployment claims since the 2009 recession and haven't had to change the underlying rules governing eligibility in even longer. Once the systems are patched and/or the surge in new claims subsides, 90% of this sudden demand for "Cobalt programmers" will evaporate. I generally agree but…

If you had to chose an environment or programming language that you expect to survive, in regards to talent pool + tech availability for 30+ years today, what would you choose?

[deleted]

Re: Mainframes Are Having a Moment

#40

Post by kbr2000 »

eggy wrote: post #4

I used to work at an environmental law firm in downtown Manhattan and accounting and other core financial systems were running on a VAX OpenVMS mainframe, and the document creation and storage was on PCs over a Token Ring, Banyan VINES network. The DOD was using VINES at the time. Memories of playing DOOM in 1994 downloaded from an FTP server somewhere while working the night shift to make backups on huge tape cartri…

Datapoint's ARCnet (token bus) similarly also had to make place for Ethernet [0], while initially less expensive. An interesting networking technology still used in industrial fieldbus applications (wind turbines & robots for example), its deterministic nature making it well-suited for realtime requirements. Flexible wiring topologies and good signal resilience too.

It was used as a basis for Datapoint's minicomputer clustering technology (called ARCNET too, programmed using DATABUS), and later VAXcluster [1] as I just found out.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARCNET

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_computer_clusters

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