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Downturns are accounting crooks’ worst enemy

economist.com

21–30 of 39 posts

Re: Downturns are accounting crooks’ worst enemy

#21
post #13

Worth pointing out that this is largely a US only problem. Rest of the world uses IFRS which clamped down on that non-GAAP adjustment stuff pretty hard because well it’s not exactly a subtle gambit

Thanks. It is easy to forget how much reporting is specifically about the US, and that a lot of the rest of the world doesn't really have the same problems.

Re: Downturns are accounting crooks’ worst enemy

#22
post #13

Worth pointing out that this is largely a US only problem. Rest of the world uses IFRS which clamped down on that non-GAAP adjustment stuff pretty hard because well it’s not exactly a subtle gambit

I think non-GAAP adjustments were mostly used in the article as a rough marker of "crookedness" that you can measure. Because by far, worldwide, the primary means of fraud involves revenue recognition and other accounting shenanigans (very much recommend the book by the same name) that both IFRS and GAAP are vulnerable to. It's just that's much harder to find that stuff out. But, when the SEC notices a problem with your revenue recognition policies affecting your revenue by a few percent, the SEC comes down on you hard. KHC was an example of that last year or maybe 2 years ago with the new rules in ASC606.

It was news to me that IFRS cracked down on non-GAAP adjustments, particularly because I follow some foreign filers in the US and haven't noticed much of a difference. But then again, I don't follow a lot of companies with the type of management that harps on EBITDA and adjusted EBITDA anyway. According to Charlie Munger, "I think you would understand any presentation using the word EBITDA, if every time you saw that word you just substituted the phrase, “bullshit earnings.”

Re: Downturns are accounting crooks’ worst enemy

#23
post #13

Worth pointing out that this is largely a US only problem. Rest of the world uses IFRS which clamped down on that non-GAAP adjustment stuff pretty hard because well it’s not exactly a subtle gambit

US governments at all levels love to use GAAP since it lets them use whatever assumptions they want to make up liability numbers for defined benefit pension and retiree healthcare benefits. In fact, the US itself forced non taxpayer funded employers to use strict standards when calculating defined benefit pension liabilities (PPA 2006), but exempted taxpayer funded pension plans from any rules.

This lets current politicians and current and near future recipients of defined benefit pensions to transfer the costs to future future taxpayers.

Re: Downturns are accounting crooks’ worst enemy

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Firefox does not offer reader mode by itself, prepend about:reader?url= to the url to force loading the page in reader mode by the way.

Is there any way to turn this into a bookmarklet, so that clicking on it would prefix the current URL with that?

    javascript:window.location="about:reader?url="+window.location
(sorry I'm on my phone just guessing; this kind of stuff might not be available because security or something nowadays)

Re: Downturns are accounting crooks’ worst enemy

#25
post #13

Worth pointing out that this is largely a US only problem. Rest of the world uses IFRS which clamped down on that non-GAAP adjustment stuff pretty hard because well it’s not exactly a subtle gambit

Buffett makes non-GAAP adjustments available because GAAP misses important nuances. Also, in the US, security appreciation and depreciation is now reported as earnings (or something ridiculous like that), so it’s pretty important to be able to explain real earnings to your shareholders.

Re: Downturns are accounting crooks’ worst enemy

#27

What a horrible article most investors understand Chinese companies lie about their number all the time. The non Chinese example is WeWork which was completely rejected by the market and failed to go public?

And Enron, Olympus, bt, WorldCom, Tesco, those people who bought dragon dictate and the African firm whose balance sheet was entirely supported by a large green gemstone. Just to name a few off the top of my head. Trying to work out a firm's true assets, liabilities and income is a genuine problem.

What’s this gemstone company?

Re: Downturns are accounting crooks’ worst enemy

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the tip. I'm curious, do you know how some sites prevent the reader mode button from appearing?

From what I would guess, it might be rather that these pages do not conform to what Firefox expects from a page to be suitable to be shown in reader mode. Large pieces of text with a few pictures in them or something like that. If you check back in a few hours, I might have posted more information on this.

This might be the right place to look into:

https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/file/default/toolkit/...

Especially:

https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/file/a6a5a4f31ea26906...

Edit: this is a potshot.

Re: Downturns are accounting crooks’ worst enemy

#29
post #13

Worth pointing out that this is largely a US only problem. Rest of the world uses IFRS which clamped down on that non-GAAP adjustment stuff pretty hard because well it’s not exactly a subtle gambit

Is there an official list of assumptions used in GAAP? According to the wikipedia, GAAP is just a bunch of very high level principles, such as be honest, consistent, give your best estimate of your finances... But it doesn't seem to prescribe any particular rules to use, just that you use them consistently. And then, what does that mean about non-GAAP ? Does non-GAAP basically allow you to be inconsistent and dishonest or use less than your best guess ?

Edit: I found a little more detail under revenue recognition page on wikipedia : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenue_recognition

Re: Downturns are accounting crooks’ worst enemy

#30
post #13

Worth pointing out that this is largely a US only problem. Rest of the world uses IFRS which clamped down on that non-GAAP adjustment stuff pretty hard because well it’s not exactly a subtle gambit

I think non-GAAP adjustments were mostly used in the article as a rough marker of "crookedness" that you can measure. Because by far, worldwide, the primary means of fraud involves revenue recognition and other accounting shenanigans (very much recommend the book by the same name) that both IFRS and GAAP are vulnerable to. It's just that's much harder to find that stuff out. But, when the SEC notices a problem with y…

Agreed regarding revenue being the bigger issue.

>It was news to me that IFRS cracked down on non-GAAP adjustments

It's mostly achieved by prohibiting adjustment for "extraordinary items". That stops 90% of this bullshit right there. I gather US GAAP has done the same but kept the concept of non-recurring items.

Whether presenting "Alternative Performance Measures" is allowed at all depends on the country specific regulator. Where they are it's generally in addition to the IFRS measures and if you look at ESMA (EU regulator) they require a reconciliation and various other stuff about fair presentation thereof:

https://www.esma.europa.eu/file/1689/download?token=VQsQ7JzC

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