Your own company? You can do it • Hacker News Board

Re: Your own company? You can do it

#11

Post by thinkingeric » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 9:15 PM UTC

maxklein wrote: post #4

You know what - actually the story does not make me feel like I can do it. It makes me feel like he's probably hundreds of time cleverer than me. He was handrolling assembler as a teen - back then I was doing VB6. All these programmer stories about how they developed OS kernels in x86 MMX extensions when they were 4 years old on Sinclair machines while skipping 4 grades and making hundreds selling lemonade never make…

If it makes you feel any better, the guy is talking about 1982. If you were 'in' to computers at all as a hobbyist during that era, it typically meant low-level tinkering. Not at all unusual. My own personal stories from that period sound today like I was a young engineering genius, but I wasn't. The same kids who learn Rails now were the ones doing assembly back then. And plain ol' luck is still as relevant today. And, of course, persistence.

Re: Your own company? You can do it

#12

Post by David » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 9:26 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #9

maxklein wrote: post #4

You know what - actually the story does not make me feel like I can do it. It makes me feel like he's probably hundreds of time cleverer than me. He was handrolling assembler as a teen - back then I was doing VB6. All these programmer stories about how they developed OS kernels in x86 MMX extensions when they were 4 years old on Sinclair machines while skipping 4 grades and making hundreds selling lemonade never make…

The temptation of seeing this depressing bullshit upvoted is too much to resist. > You know what - actually the story does not make me feel like I can do it. It makes me feel like he's probably hundreds of time cleverer than me. I'm not, it was just hard work. Lots of it. I suck at math and plenty of other subjects that would come in quite handy as a programmer, probably I'm very much unsuited to the job based on my…

On the one hand, a story like yours of success through sheer determination is awesome and uplifting. On the other hand, the idea of working that hard, for that long, is overwhelming to many.

A lot of people don't think themselves (and may not be) capable of the sustained effort you put in. (Generalizing from my own case is possibly unwarranted, but it's uncomfortable to say this about myself directly. =/ )

Re: Your own company? You can do it

#13

Post by krsgoss » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 9:40 PM UTC

maxklein wrote: post #4

You know what - actually the story does not make me feel like I can do it. It makes me feel like he's probably hundreds of time cleverer than me. He was handrolling assembler as a teen - back then I was doing VB6. All these programmer stories about how they developed OS kernels in x86 MMX extensions when they were 4 years old on Sinclair machines while skipping 4 grades and making hundreds selling lemonade never make…

I started programming in VB after having dabbled in old school C64 Basic and some Pascal. I had zero experience and knew I wanted to be a developer one day. I got turned down from one place (a help desk job) for being "too ambitious" when I said I really wanted to get into development some day.

I started in help desks, took some skills tests so recruiters could pitch me to shitty consulting gigs, and worked my way up through professional services and eventually into a fulltime dev role at real software shop with truly talented developers.

I definitely wasn't handrolling assembler in my teen years (or ever), but I've been able to make a great living by scratching and clawing my way in!

Re: Your own company? You can do it

#14

Post by Hoff » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 9:42 PM UTC

thinkingeric wrote: post #11

maxklein wrote: post #4

You know what - actually the story does not make me feel like I can do it. It makes me feel like he's probably hundreds of time cleverer than me. He was handrolling assembler as a teen - back then I was doing VB6. All these programmer stories about how they developed OS kernels in x86 MMX extensions when they were 4 years old on Sinclair machines while skipping 4 grades and making hundreds selling lemonade never make…

If it makes you feel any better, the guy is talking about 1982. If you were 'in' to computers at all as a hobbyist during that era, it typically meant low-level tinkering. Not at all unusual. My own personal stories from that period sound today like I was a young engineering genius, but I wasn't. The same kids who learn Rails now were the ones doing assembly back then. And plain ol' luck is still as relevant today. A…

Assembly was how you coded many applications back in the 1970s and into 1980s, and tasks such as displaying output onto a serial terminal console could require as much as fifty lines of assembler on some systems.

On a "nicer-architecture" box and OS and while still coding assembler, it was still ten or so lines of assembler with a system call for the core of the output.

Why assembler? Well, you either didn't have a higher-level language around, or a C or Fortran compiler could cost you US$5,000 for a license, and US$36,000 for a memory upgrade from 4 to 8 megabytes.

Modern environments and tools are vastly more capable. And cheaper. And the tasks and applications that are now ubiquitous are massively more advanced. Debugging state by reading the front-panel accumulator lights (because you couldn't get the debugger to work) Stinks Large.

Would I trade knowing assembler? Donno. Probably. I just don't code assembler that much any more. Modern languages are vastly more capable. What you can do now with a couple-dozen lines of Objective C or Ruby code (and all the underpinnings) is massive in comparison.

Re: Your own company? You can do it

#15

Post by ajtaylor » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 9:53 PM UTC

Thank you so much for your story. My dream is to have a "side" business which would make enough money to allow me and my family to explore the world. It's never too late to start!

PS. If I'm lucky I'll be moving to Amsterdam next month with a new job. :)

Re: Your own company? You can do it

#16

Post by notahacker » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 10:18 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #9

maxklein wrote: post #4

You know what - actually the story does not make me feel like I can do it. It makes me feel like he's probably hundreds of time cleverer than me. He was handrolling assembler as a teen - back then I was doing VB6. All these programmer stories about how they developed OS kernels in x86 MMX extensions when they were 4 years old on Sinclair machines while skipping 4 grades and making hundreds selling lemonade never make…

The temptation of seeing this depressing bullshit upvoted is too much to resist. > You know what - actually the story does not make me feel like I can do it. It makes me feel like he's probably hundreds of time cleverer than me. I'm not, it was just hard work. Lots of it. I suck at math and plenty of other subjects that would come in quite handy as a programmer, probably I'm very much unsuited to the job based on my…

Good to see you back :-p

Seriously, the "depressing" message I got out of it was that guy was around when the ability to program a computer wasn't a widely-available commodity. That's not to say that commodity programming ability and straightforward ideas allied to some business nous can't be successful nowadays - there are a lot of channels for doing that today that don't involve persuading ignorant HR staff to become the apprentice in their IT department, and no shortage of mentors to point you in the direction of independence. It's just that other people's very different experiences don't necessarily translate well into the impetus to do something different.

FWIW I got my youthful enterprise anecdotes from my grandpa's stories of an ancestor who taught himself how to build one of the first motor cars in the county, and never once felt the inclination to get out the monkey wrench. The interwebby stuff... I should have done more a long time ago.

Re: Your own company? You can do it

#17

Post by TheSOB88 » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 10:24 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #9

maxklein wrote: post #4

You know what - actually the story does not make me feel like I can do it. It makes me feel like he's probably hundreds of time cleverer than me. He was handrolling assembler as a teen - back then I was doing VB6. All these programmer stories about how they developed OS kernels in x86 MMX extensions when they were 4 years old on Sinclair machines while skipping 4 grades and making hundreds selling lemonade never make…

The temptation of seeing this depressing bullshit upvoted is too much to resist. > You know what - actually the story does not make me feel like I can do it. It makes me feel like he's probably hundreds of time cleverer than me. I'm not, it was just hard work. Lots of it. I suck at math and plenty of other subjects that would come in quite handy as a programmer, probably I'm very much unsuited to the job based on my…

So you came back to argue with what you basically sum up as a troll?

How a story makes you feel is probably the most important part of it. And I agree with Max: I feel disconnected from the person who says they were hacking awesome crap back when they were 16. I feel even more so because I almost had that opportunity - I learned Basic on my uncle's old C64 when I was 8! I wanted compilers so bad, I read C++ Windows API books from the library without any idea what the hell they meant, but nobody was there to guide me. I gave up. I know it's a bad way of looking at it, but I felt kind of cheated by the universe.

And implying that you need to be that kind of person - who has been hacking since their teens - to succeed, yeah, that makes me feel like I can't do it. I mean Jacques, come on. From that story it seems you a computing god at 17. And my 17-year-old parallel, writing some dumb Java apps, pales in comparison.

Re: Your own company? You can do it

#18

Post by falcolas » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 10:24 PM UTC

maxklein wrote: post #4

You know what - actually the story does not make me feel like I can do it. It makes me feel like he's probably hundreds of time cleverer than me. He was handrolling assembler as a teen - back then I was doing VB6. All these programmer stories about how they developed OS kernels in x86 MMX extensions when they were 4 years old on Sinclair machines while skipping 4 grades and making hundreds selling lemonade never make…

While this story is uplifting, it's a lot more about being in the right place at the right time.

I'd personally rather see a story about a 30-something under-appreciated corporate developer who is supporting a family with their mid-level salary and benefits striking out and succeeding. I, and many others, are beyond the point where they can strike out and fund a startup, and who simply can not survive on a raman salary.

Sure, I might make more in one contract than I would normally make in a year. But the chances are probably better that I could end up with my family not having a home anymore.

Re: Your own company? You can do it

#19

Post by lawnchair_larry » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 10:29 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #9

maxklein wrote: post #4

You know what - actually the story does not make me feel like I can do it. It makes me feel like he's probably hundreds of time cleverer than me. He was handrolling assembler as a teen - back then I was doing VB6. All these programmer stories about how they developed OS kernels in x86 MMX extensions when they were 4 years old on Sinclair machines while skipping 4 grades and making hundreds selling lemonade never make…

The temptation of seeing this depressing bullshit upvoted is too much to resist. > You know what - actually the story does not make me feel like I can do it. It makes me feel like he's probably hundreds of time cleverer than me. I'm not, it was just hard work. Lots of it. I suck at math and plenty of other subjects that would come in quite handy as a programmer, probably I'm very much unsuited to the job based on my…

It's like that wise tigerblood celebrity once said - "Can't is the cancer of happen."

We need less bi-polar, and more bi-winning up in here.

Re: Your own company? You can do it

#20

Post by hanifvirani » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 10:31 PM UTC

Success is visible to everyone, but the hard work and preparation that goes into it, sometimes over the course of years, is not always apparent. So when most people see a successful person they go "He has all the luck in the world, I wish I was that lucky", or "He is a genius, I wish I was as clever". What they don't realize is the amount of toil and persistence that went into that success, either directly or indirectly, just like in this inspiring story Jacques has shared with us. Success doesn't happen overnight. There is hard work involved. You can achieve things too, provided you work for it.