Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How the Anti-Vaccine Community Is Responding to Covid-19

undark.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 111 posts

Re: How the Anti-Vaccine Community Is Responding to Covid-19

#21

Post by ejstronge »

generalpass wrote: post #8
bradleyy wrote: post #3

I can't say as conflating antivaxxers with a pediatrician that recommends a delayed/modified vaccine schedule is exactly productive. Delayed/modified schedule isn't to blame for measles. Pretty disingenuous, IMO. For those who don't know, there is a camp of people who believe that we're getting vaccinations at way too fast a schedule. Yes, this includes doctors, like the aforementioned pediatrician.

> I can't say as conflating antivaxxers with a pediatrician that recommends a delayed/modified vaccine schedule is exactly productive. Delayed/modified schedule isn't to blame for measles. Pretty disingenuous, IMO. > For those who don't know, there is a camp of people who believe that we're getting vaccinations at way too fast a schedule. Yes, this includes doctors, like the aforementioned pediatrician. It is not onl…

> I am not defending the following claim, but among other claims is one that states a popularly cited measles outbreak occurred with 95% of the people catching having been immunized. The claim is that the immunizations are no longer effective

One of the key aspects of science is presenting data and methodology to support a claim - this enables reproducibility.

If we don't have these pieces of information, we're essentially back in the realm of religion: believing statements without evidence.

Re: How the Anti-Vaccine Community Is Responding to Covid-19

#23

Post by msafadieh »

beefield wrote: post #19

There are a couple of other groups I would like to be interviewed as well. - Economists who have bought into the crowding out theory. Are they consistent and still oppose government spending? [1] - People/corporations who have lobbied for and taken advantage of all kinds of loopholes in taxation as to avoid paying taxes and who think taxation is theft, and are now expecting government to pay them out from this mess.…

This is what profit-driven systems do.

Re: How the Anti-Vaccine Community Is Responding to Covid-19

#24

Post by lpah4all »

doikor wrote: post #10
bradleyy wrote: post #3

I can't say as conflating antivaxxers with a pediatrician that recommends a delayed/modified vaccine schedule is exactly productive. Delayed/modified schedule isn't to blame for measles. Pretty disingenuous, IMO. For those who don't know, there is a camp of people who believe that we're getting vaccinations at way too fast a schedule. Yes, this includes doctors, like the aforementioned pediatrician.

> there is a camp of people who believe that we're getting vaccinations at way too fast a schedule Keyword here being believe. Their opinion is based on purely belief without any proof. All it does is give the kids their immunity later giving the pathogen a window to get them sick and spread the pathogen further

It also increases profit.

You trust those B-schoolers and their hand-picked goal-seeking researchers to shade toward safety or profit?

I am pro-vax (within a sensible schedule) and anti-for-profit-corps, who NEVER EVER give a shit about your health, only that you can't prove that it was their product that harmed you.

Re: How the Anti-Vaccine Community Is Responding to Covid-19

#25

Post by cbg0 »

lpah4all wrote: post #13

Vaccines are an absolutely revolutionary technology. That said, mixing profit with essential medical technology is a recipe for failure. The first way to make something more profitable is to cut costs. What corners do these corps cut to up their margins? And how does that decrease health outcomes for some percent of the population? The bottom-line is that no for-profit corp can be trusted with your health. Vaccines m…

> The bottom-line is that no for-profit corp can be trusted with your health.

You've reached this so-called "bottom line" very quickly without providing actual evidence to support your statement.

Re: How the Anti-Vaccine Community Is Responding to Covid-19

#26

Post by krapp »

peter_d_sherman wrote: post #7

Opinion: Forcing someone else to take a vaccine, if they don't want to, or forcing someone else NOT to take a vaccine, if they do -- is no different than forcing a woman to take an abortion if she doesn't want it, or forcing a woman NOT to take an abortion, if she does want it. It's no different than forcing a man to join the Military if he doesn't want to join, or forcing the man NOT to join the Military, if he does…

>A future Constitution will explicitly support the right to be medicated/vaccinated if one wishes to be, while conversely supporting the right NOT to be medicated/vaccinated, if one does not.

No it won't because the Constitution is not, nor should it ever be, a suicide pact.

Re: How the Anti-Vaccine Community Is Responding to Covid-19

#27

Post by CydeWeys »

_pd19 wrote: post #16
generalpass wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't say as conflating antivaxxers with a pediatrician that recommends a delayed/modified vaccine schedule is exactly productive. Delayed/modified schedule isn't to blame for measles. Pretty disingenuous, IMO. > For those who don't know, there is a camp of people who believe that we're getting vaccinations at way too fast a schedule. Yes, this includes doctors, like the aforementioned pediatrician. It is not onl…

> but among other claims is one that states a popularly cited measles outbreak occurred with 95% of the people catching having been immunized Source? Regardless, the large majority of aggregate cases of measles in the United States are among people who aren't vaccinated, which is a massive, massive over-representation and suggests that the measles vaccine is effective, regardless of specific anomalous cases. I find t…

For what it's worth, I'm 34 and had to get the MMR vaccine again last year because blood titers showed that I was no longer producing meaningful antibodies for rubella. Given that the average person has been vaccinated against over a dozen diseases, odds are good that at least one of them has worn off and needs to be re-upped by now.

So that's another reason the herd immunity is so important: If enough people opt out of just getting a simple shot, then now everyone else has to go through the much larger burden of periodic retesting and re-vaccining for them to be safe.

Re: How the Anti-Vaccine Community Is Responding to Covid-19

#28

Post by AshamedCaptain »

lpah4all wrote: post #13

Vaccines are an absolutely revolutionary technology. That said, mixing profit with essential medical technology is a recipe for failure. The first way to make something more profitable is to cut costs. What corners do these corps cut to up their margins? And how does that decrease health outcomes for some percent of the population? The bottom-line is that no for-profit corp can be trusted with your health. Vaccines m…

There's something very wrong in your message, practically the same bias as the vaccine "denialists".

First you establish your order of trust as:

1. Government

2. For-profit-corporations

Then you acknowledge that your actual practisting order of trust is:

1. Your gut (why is "the entire schedule frankly insane"?)

2. European Governments

3. Your American Government

The later ranking is not justified at all by your early statements.

If you trust governments better than corporations as a matter of choice, fine. It may actually be a sensible choice in this bullshit world. If you trust your gut more than governments fine, it may also be a sensible choice, even.

However, be consistent, and realize your biases.

Re: How the Anti-Vaccine Community Is Responding to Covid-19

#29

Post by Fezzik »

generalpass wrote: post #8
bradleyy wrote: post #3

I can't say as conflating antivaxxers with a pediatrician that recommends a delayed/modified vaccine schedule is exactly productive. Delayed/modified schedule isn't to blame for measles. Pretty disingenuous, IMO. For those who don't know, there is a camp of people who believe that we're getting vaccinations at way too fast a schedule. Yes, this includes doctors, like the aforementioned pediatrician.

> I can't say as conflating antivaxxers with a pediatrician that recommends a delayed/modified vaccine schedule is exactly productive. Delayed/modified schedule isn't to blame for measles. Pretty disingenuous, IMO. > For those who don't know, there is a camp of people who believe that we're getting vaccinations at way too fast a schedule. Yes, this includes doctors, like the aforementioned pediatrician. It is not onl…

That is just absolutely not true. Hence it is an unsupportable claim. At least for the US, the CDC tracks every known case, and it is the unvaccinated that get the measles: https://www.cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.html

Re: How the Anti-Vaccine Community Is Responding to Covid-19

#30

Post by _pd19 »

CydeWeys wrote: post #27
_pd19 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but among other claims is one that states a popularly cited measles outbreak occurred with 95% of the people catching having been immunized Source? Regardless, the large majority of aggregate cases of measles in the United States are among people who aren't vaccinated, which is a massive, massive over-representation and suggests that the measles vaccine is effective, regardless of specific anomalous cases. I find t…

For what it's worth, I'm 34 and had to get the MMR vaccine again last year because blood titers showed that I was no longer producing meaningful antibodies for rubella. Given that the average person has been vaccinated against over a dozen diseases, odds are good that at least one of them has worn off and needs to be re-upped by now. So that's another reason the herd immunity is so important: If enough people opt out…

Yep, plus the fact that certain vaccines aren't effective in every single person but it is hard to know apriori who those people are.
Post reply on HN