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Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie

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Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie

#281
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple years ago I worked on a market research contract for a food grower that tried to answer the opposite, "what does all natural mean" (or some set of synonyms)? Turns out it's virtually impossible to define it. Here was one of the exercises we went through: 1) Take an orange, grown in the wild without being touched in any way by the hand of man. 2) If you eat that orange, are you eating something that's "all na…

"2) If you eat that orange, are you eating something that's "all natural"? 3) If you squeeze that orange, and drink its juice, is it still "all natural"?" The In Defense of Food argument is not so much about whether or not the food is still "natural" at that point. The point is you are throwing out much of the orange, and there is probably stuff in the part you are throwing away that is good for you. Pollan talks abo…

Not to entirely disagree with you but

Or you can just eat the actual plants and animals and be done with it.

You don't just grab a potato out of the ground and eat it whole. Or jump out into a field of cattle with a fork and knife ready to go. You can do that with some foods, not so much with others. If the metric is "you must be able to eat it right out of the wild with 0 processing" you're going to eat a lot of raw tomatoes and peppers and not a whole lot else.

In many cases, you have to process the food source to make it edible. Rhubarb for example has poisonous leaves that will kill you. The green bits of the tomato can surpress cardiac functions. For most animals you can't just start biting chunks out of them. You may have to remove internal organs that are inedible, bones (I don't see many paleo eaters advocating cracking open thigh bones to get at the marrow very often btw), etc.

http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/news-10-poisonous-fruit...

In some cases, edible parts may contain bad stuff, pork meat for example is well known to be unsafe raw. I'm pretty sure cavemen ate pigs (or at least boar). Cow brains may contain prions. etc.

I do agree with you that food manufacture from chemical components on up is likely not complete, but there's not really much of that in the industry. Even highly "processed" foods like hotdogs or McDonald's chicken McNuggets are just ground up and cooked scrap meat and connective tissue (all paleo friendly!). They have all the stuff that's in meat anyways. The process to make imitation cheese doesn't generally fall under that kind of manufacturing process.

Many common and cheap foodstuffs also don't contain much nutrition. Vitamin fortified rice has probably improved the lives of a billion people.

People also get all kinds of scared when the chemical names for common food components are used. Should I use "salt" or "sodium chloride"? Should I avoid all foods with Monosodium Glutamate (good luck with that)?

But like anything it all just comes down to moderation. Nutmeg is great and natural, but if you eat too much of it you'll get have hallucinations and may die. Who knows what's in a clam, perhaps if you eat clams 3 times a day for a year (a completely possible scenario for a caveman) you'll have serious health problems like mercury poisoning or some other issue.

Who knows?

and there is probably stuff in the part you are throwing away that is good for you.

You may also be throwing out stuff that's very bad for you. It's all conjecture.

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie

#282
post #147
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that the bulked up guys probably weigh a lot more than you do so the number of achieved pull-ups is not an interesting measure? The really bulked-up ones most likely train for muscle mass, not for any useful activity.

Sure, they do weigh a lot more than I do. Isn't that part of the fair comparison? You don't give a cyclist or runner a backpack with weights in it because it's "unfair" that he weighs less than the other cyclist/runner. These guys were probably training pull ups every week at least, so it's on their home territory. Yet their training is less effective than running & cycling. For the vast majority of activities, perfo…

You also arbitrarily decided that number of pull-ups was going to be your metric for determining who was more fit.

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie

#283
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. But the premise we're testing here essentially boils down to "we should do things like cavemen because it's natural, because it's natural it's what we evolved to do, since it's what we evolve to do it'll be healthier" The other component of that is of course that we're all fat and out of shape today because we eat foods that cavemen never had access to. One measure of health is of course weight, but so is…

I think you're missing my point: if it's infant mortality that keeps average life expectancy down, it's false to say that "caveman" diets are optimized for only aging to 30. I think it's closer to the truth to say that cavemen either died at birth, or lived a natural lifespan closer to modern man than an average would indicate. So you can't discount a "caveman" diet because average life expectancy was (and in some cu…

Even if there is a 0% infant mortality rate, if everybody dies around 30, the average life expectancy can still be 30. Like I said, this is easy to test, there are still quite a few hunter gatherer cultures around, and they aren't exactly struggling to deal with an elderly care problem. This is pretty well studied. What you are supplying is conjecture, or perhaps an interesting hypothesis.

"I think it's closer to the truth to say that cavemen...lived a natural lifespan closer to modern man." Test it! I honestly don't know the answer, the data I managed to find in 10 minutes of searching says that hypothesis is incorrect -- but as you rightly point out my data includes infant mortality in the averages (I believe). But if you can find data that says "excluding infant mortality, pre-agrarian cultures have an average lifespan of 70-80 years" I'll be more than happy to accept that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy

According to the entry above, there's a measure called e5 that should supply the relevant figures.

And I think it's a straw man to say that accepting a "caveman" or "hunter gatherer" diet means we need to accept -every- aspect of "primitive" life.

I'm not really attacking the diet per se, many of the recipes are actually pretty tasty and are generally pretty healthy. I'm attacking the faulty line of reasoning given as to why one should do this.

"it seems to be pretty healthy" is wishy washy, but okay

"You should eat this way because evolution made you to eat this way therefore it's healthy" is not, it present a long chain of reasoning that falls apart at almost every link, but it's presented as a kind of science, which it's not by this reasoning.

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

">>There is no significant research that shows adding exercise to an overweight person's lifestyle will significantly reduce their weight - typically just increases their appetite. >Increasing exercise and holding consumption constant will reduce body fat." I'm not sure you read the sentence you're responding to: "typically just increases their appetite." Yes, if you lock a person in a room with the exact same meals…

I'm not sure you read the sentence you're responding to: "typically just increases their appetite." If you add exercise to a person's lifestyle without adding calories, they will lose weight. It's that simple. There is research to show this. I cited some of it. your discovery of his 'incredible dishonesty' doesn't pass the smell test -- surely someone eating 7.5 extra strips of bacon per day would notice? Go read Gar…

"If you add exercise to a person's lifestyle without adding calories, they will lose weight. It's that simple. There is research to show this. I cited some of it."

That's great. There is also research that shows that acceleration due to gravity at sea level is 9.8 m/s^2, but that has little to do with what the OP said, which is that "exercise tends to increase people's appetites." You're refuting something he never claimed.

"He never, in his entire blog post, mentions the fact that the fat person is also eating 7 extra strips of bacon each day."

I'm guessing because that's not the case? You're begging the question by showing that his claims don't work out according to the calories in/calories out model.

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie

#285
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In .au "getting winded" means getting the wind knocked out of you.

It also means running out of breath from doing too much. Curiously, in my karate dojo, we are taught to learn to fight whilst being winded - as in, having the wind knocked out of you .

Interesting. I always think Australia's as being pretty culturally homogeneous, but obviously that isn't really true when you look really closely. I am curious to know what part of .au did you grow up in / live in? I grew up in Tasmania, lived for 10 years in Melbourne, and the last 5 in south east Queensland.

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie

#286
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> don't eat boxed foods or foods that went through multiple stages of processing What's wrong with cheese, or butter? Or sauerkraut and pickles? All processed food. Also, powdered mashed potatoes and puffed rice are just conveniently preserved starch. They're perfectly healthy. The "processed food" and "mostly plants" stuff is just marketing psychology that taps into SWPLs' inner hippie. The real diet rules aren't my…

A couple years ago I worked on a market research contract for a food grower that tried to answer the opposite, "what does all natural mean" (or some set of synonyms)? Turns out it's virtually impossible to define it. Here was one of the exercises we went through: 1) Take an orange, grown in the wild without being touched in any way by the hand of man. 2) If you eat that orange, are you eating something that's "all na…

Uranium is all-natural. ;)

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie

#287
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing I agree with in the article is that cardio machines in the gym are a waste of time. Not sure this is really true or that it matters. A 5 mile run on the treadmill at an x minute pace is the same as a 5 mile run outside at an x minute pace. Advantages of the treadmill include being able to keep a given pace without making any particular mental effort. Advantages of being outside is that it's not boring.

Hmm, well it's more subtle than that. Running on a "real" surface, that is constantly changing gradient and direction, works a lot of ancillary muscles for stability and balance that you don't get on a treadmill. The cardio workout might be the same. But if you trained for a Marathon only on a treadmill, you'd be in for a bit of a surprise when you tried a real one. Without the core strength you'd lose your form, you…

maybe I'm in a minority, but I've always found the way the treadmill cuts short my naturally long stride at any reasonable pace to require far more body adjustment than minor undulations in the ground (which I adjust for naturally and subconsciously, without worrying that I'm going to misjudge the pace the machine fixes for me)

Suffice to say I strongly prefer the real surface.

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie

#288

This is a one sided view of fitness. e.g. there is zero focus on cardio. Would be interesting to see one of these guys do a light 5 mile run. Look into real world training: running, hard hiking with a pack, mountain biking, swimming/surfing. These types of exercise have been the most rewarding for me in terms of skeletal, muscle and cardio fitness. The only thing I agree with in the article is that cardio machines in…

The only thing I agree with in the article is that cardio machines in the gym are a waste of time. Not sure this is really true or that it matters. A 5 mile run on the treadmill at an x minute pace is the same as a 5 mile run outside at an x minute pace. Advantages of the treadmill include being able to keep a given pace without making any particular mental effort. Advantages of being outside is that it's not boring.

This is something I always wondered about.

I get FAR more tired running 2 real miles than 2 "miles" on a treadmill.

On a treadmill, both of your feet are in the air for a significant amount of time, and you're not being carried backwards. Yet, I bet that distance still gets counted.

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie

#289
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get a stand up desk, or failing that create a makeshift one with cardboard boxes. I started doing that 9 months ago. Now all my back problems are gone. 10% of my company,or roughly 20 people, have since happily switched.

Ah, but I have congenital ankle problems which make standing or walking for long periods (or just the wrong movements over a short period) problematic. My life is a balancing act of pain risk. :-) I find that maintaining the posture that my 8th grade typing teacher enforced is solving all of my neck issues. It's just difficult to maintain awareness of posture when I'm concentrating really deeply on a bit of code or d…

Ah, I'm sorry to hear that. Keeping your posture when sitting helps a lot too, but I understand it is hard when you're deep in thought.

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie

#290
Wow, a ten-page article that says almost nothing, despite the shocking title. I think anyone serious about fitness knows that free weights and sports are the most effective and fun ways to get there.

Also haven't heard it mentioned yet so I'll share some other good ideas for the geeks. One is to move about a mile or two from work ... arrive every morning refreshed instead of cursing traffic. Two, take up salsa dancing and chat up the hot latinas. Three, get a cheap bike and ride the local hills. Catching a beautiful sunset with a view is a fantastic reward. Also helps me catch up with my podcasts.

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