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Bolsonaro fires health minister, calls to reopen economy

reuters.com

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Re: Bolsonaro fires health minister, calls to reopen economy

#21

Post by PacifyFish »

redis_mlc wrote: post #12
save_ferris wrote: post #6

The parallels between the current US and Brazilian administrations are hard to ignore. That said, I really hope Trump and Fauci are able to see this crisis out together. Bolsonaro’s decision today could kill thousands, no doubt.

I wish this b.s. would stop. Corona virus is so contagious and we're so unprepared that it will continue to spread in the US regardless of what we do. Yes, thousands will die regardless of what we do. But there is no way lockdown will continue until people starve. So end this timid lockdown before the total destruction of our economy. Start thinking about public policy instead of "my dear 80 year-old grandpa in the h…

Keep in mind the lockdown is meant to slow spread so the healthcare system doesn't get overloaded, not to stop it.

It is successful in this respect, and IMO a healthy balance of economic slowdown and death toll. We'll probably start reopening (hopefully in stages, so we can monitor impact) in the next ~3 weeks.

Re: Bolsonaro fires health minister, calls to reopen economy

#22

Post by knowaveragejoe »

cosmodisk wrote: post #11
aphroz wrote: post #8

Honest question: Did we see any anormal mortality in any country caused by the covid-19? Countrywide there seems to be less death than usual on the period January-March in Europe. Edit: And here goes my karma. I will need to do some PR to catch up with this :)

We are. comparable death rates in the UK are higher.

The numbers may be similar, if not slightly higher than normal, because the deaths we'd normally have are being offset by reduced activity and increase COVID-19 deaths. So looking at totals without that context doesn't help much.

It's the same in the US. Article here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/04/16/coronaviru...

Re: Bolsonaro fires health minister, calls to reopen economy

#23

Post by skybrian »

redis_mlc wrote: post #12
save_ferris wrote: post #6

The parallels between the current US and Brazilian administrations are hard to ignore. That said, I really hope Trump and Fauci are able to see this crisis out together. Bolsonaro’s decision today could kill thousands, no doubt.

I wish this b.s. would stop. Corona virus is so contagious and we're so unprepared that it will continue to spread in the US regardless of what we do. Yes, thousands will die regardless of what we do. But there is no way lockdown will continue until people starve. So end this timid lockdown before the total destruction of our economy. Start thinking about public policy instead of "my dear 80 year-old grandpa in the h…

What's your scenario for people starving? Congress refuses to give out more money? Workers in "essential" businesses (which includes everything food related) stop working?

I would be more worried about rent and mortgages.

Re: Bolsonaro fires health minister, calls to reopen economy

#24

Post by spamizbad »

redis_mlc wrote: post #12
save_ferris wrote: post #6

The parallels between the current US and Brazilian administrations are hard to ignore. That said, I really hope Trump and Fauci are able to see this crisis out together. Bolsonaro’s decision today could kill thousands, no doubt.

I wish this b.s. would stop. Corona virus is so contagious and we're so unprepared that it will continue to spread in the US regardless of what we do. Yes, thousands will die regardless of what we do. But there is no way lockdown will continue until people starve. So end this timid lockdown before the total destruction of our economy. Start thinking about public policy instead of "my dear 80 year-old grandpa in the h…

I love this kind of thinking.

Earlier in the year it was this was a bad flu, no cause for alarm, no lockdown necessary.

This has switched to the virus being too contagious to contain so you might as well do nothing major to address it and let it run its course.

Truth is countries that took this seriously and acted swiftly controlled it. They’ll be reopening soon (Singapore already has, right?). I’m guessing the US will probably start lifting in May. Trump can huff and puff all he wants but so much of the US economy is tied up in about 10 states so they ultimately call the shots... and they’re keeping the quarantine through the month.

Re: Bolsonaro fires health minister, calls to reopen economy

#25

Post by lhoff »

aphroz wrote: post #8

Honest question: Did we see any anormal mortality in any country caused by the covid-19? Countrywide there seems to be less death than usual on the period January-March in Europe. Edit: And here goes my karma. I will need to do some PR to catch up with this :)

Yes, when you look at Italy or Spain the overall mortality is way higher than normal.

https://www.lavocedinewyork.com/en/news/2020/03/26/coronavir...

It's important to look at the numbers by region and not the total numbers. And if you consider the overall mortality you have to take in mind that other incidents where people usually die went down (e.g. traffic accidents. But all these countries have now strict lockdown measures in place.

I'm sure that the death toll im Brazil will skyrocket.

Re: Bolsonaro fires health minister, calls to reopen economy

#26

Post by andyroid »

mchusma wrote: post #14
mikepurvis wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Already happening in Sweden: https://nationalpost.com/news/world/covid-19-as-swedens-deat...

I don't understand the Sweden example. Their daily % increase in deaths is well below California. I don't know if there is a difference in counting deaths but Sweden seems to be doing ok relative to other countries. I have heard that they are effectively shut down voluntarily, so government action was not needed but the effect has been the same. Maybe a Swede can weigh in. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavir…

Swede here. Like you say our isolation is pretty much volountary, with only larger groups gathering being banned - though I very much doubt that would happen anyway should it be allowed. Our neighboring countries who opted for total lockdown are slowly starting to open up too. I think the death toll in pretty much any country will be primarily depending on how well you’ve protected your elderly. We’ve done OK but could certainly have done better. Though still very far from the “devastatingly wrong” claim above.

Re: Bolsonaro fires health minister, calls to reopen economy

#27

Post by anon84598 »

mchusma wrote: post #14
mikepurvis wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Already happening in Sweden: https://nationalpost.com/news/world/covid-19-as-swedens-deat...

I don't understand the Sweden example. Their daily % increase in deaths is well below California. I don't know if there is a difference in counting deaths but Sweden seems to be doing ok relative to other countries. I have heard that they are effectively shut down voluntarily, so government action was not needed but the effect has been the same. Maybe a Swede can weigh in. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavir…

Sweden isn't performing a lot of tests for one:

https://www.thelocal.se/20200414/understanding-swedens-figur...

Re: Bolsonaro fires health minister, calls to reopen economy

#28

Post by cultus »

redis_mlc wrote: post #12
save_ferris wrote: post #6

The parallels between the current US and Brazilian administrations are hard to ignore. That said, I really hope Trump and Fauci are able to see this crisis out together. Bolsonaro’s decision today could kill thousands, no doubt.

I wish this b.s. would stop. Corona virus is so contagious and we're so unprepared that it will continue to spread in the US regardless of what we do. Yes, thousands will die regardless of what we do. But there is no way lockdown will continue until people starve. So end this timid lockdown before the total destruction of our economy. Start thinking about public policy instead of "my dear 80 year-old grandpa in the h…

[flagged]

Re: Bolsonaro fires health minister, calls to reopen economy

#29

Post by aphroz »

simmanian wrote: post #15
aphroz wrote: post #8

Honest question: Did we see any anormal mortality in any country caused by the covid-19? Countrywide there seems to be less death than usual on the period January-March in Europe. Edit: And here goes my karma. I will need to do some PR to catch up with this :)

I mean, if you just google "covid death tolls" you'll see 34,386 deaths in USA alone that we know of. Considering a lot of COVID patients don't even get diagnosed the real number is likely higher. Isn't that enough?

How many of these would have died anyway, I am asking about the difference in numbers, not a feeling.

Re: Bolsonaro fires health minister, calls to reopen economy

#30

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

anon84598 wrote: post #27
mchusma wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the Sweden example. Their daily % increase in deaths is well below California. I don't know if there is a difference in counting deaths but Sweden seems to be doing ok relative to other countries. I have heard that they are effectively shut down voluntarily, so government action was not needed but the effect has been the same. Maybe a Swede can weigh in. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavir…

Sweden isn't performing a lot of tests for one: https://www.thelocal.se/20200414/understanding-swedens-figur...

Why do they need to perform a lot of tests if their strategy isn't dependent on testing?
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