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10-core i9-10900F desktop CPU lags behind 8-core Ryzen 9 4900HS mobile APU

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Re: 10-core i9-10900F desktop CPU lags behind 8-core Ryzen 9 4900HS mobile APU

#111
post #85
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah TDP is calculated differently for Intel and AMD, usually to make Intel look better. It makes it harder to compare because hardware components are going to be different (e.g. different mobo, different memory, etc) but they should measure wattage out the wall.

Intel's is roughly "the thermal dissipation required to maintain base clock speeds indefinitely without thermal throttling". AMD's is roughly "the thermal dissipation required for all-core turbo indefinitely". In recent generations (since AMD's Zen architecture), AMD is much closer in testing to their published numbers than Intel is. It is important to note that this is a thermal specification, rather than a power co…

>There are processors that exist which can hit their performance numbers without needing any thermal solution, and as such would have an "honest" TDP of 0, despite having a >0 power draw from the wall.

Nitpick warning - I assume you mean that they are passively cooled in free air. They are still emitting heat into their environment. If you stuck such a processor into a perfectly insulated container, it would eventually overheat and throttle down. So it's really only fair to call them 0 TDP if you ignore the base "free" cooling. You could make the same assumption about power if you just stuck a solar panel on top (like a calculator processor) and then ignored that power input.

Re: 10-core i9-10900F desktop CPU lags behind 8-core Ryzen 9 4900HS mobile APU

#112
post #49

I've got a 4800hs 8-core laptop that should be showing up on my doorstep later today. My kid is doing some heavy video/graphics work in Adobe in her undergraduate program, and going to try this as a potential desktop/workstation replacement since she is still a bit of a nomad as a student. Her current laptop just can't handle the work without trying to cook itself - but will have some apples to apples rendering compa…

For the performance and battery life, $1000 is a pretty good price.

I think it has a 4800H cpu (45W) and not the more expensive 4800HS cpu (35W). Apparently the S is short for slim, source: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-hs-design-standard-gam...

Still, around 10 hours of battery life for casual use is great.

Re: 10-core i9-10900F desktop CPU lags behind 8-core Ryzen 9 4900HS mobile APU

#113
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice - assuming it has USB-C? The external USB-C SSDs are great for source media.

Can you recommend a NUC-like computer? Something easy to carry around, to LAN, ideally with PCIe slots or an NVIDIA GPU

Intel is reportedly going back to their old ways and incentivizing nuc vendors to either delay or cancel AMD versions.

https://twitter.com/IanCutress/status/1249819270537715719?s=...

Re: 10-core i9-10900F desktop CPU lags behind 8-core Ryzen 9 4900HS mobile APU

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also doesn't pass the smell test in that the single core performance is higher than the Ryzen 4900 and it also has both more cores and more threads yet it is far behind on multicore performance? Likely some thread affinity issue that just needs a patch.

Multithreaded applications tend to share a lot of data between threads, and we already know Intel's mesh fabric core interconnect[1] seems to be inferior to AMD's chiplet+io die in terms of performance and access latency uniformity. [1] used in all 10core+ Intel CPUs.

AMD's 4000 APUs are monolithic and don't use separate chiplets and IO die. The chiplet + infinity fabric has higher latency than Intel, but that's not a problem for the APUs.

Re: 10-core i9-10900F desktop CPU lags behind 8-core Ryzen 9 4900HS mobile APU

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Despite the protestations of l33t Cyberhaxxing Z3r0 Cools everywhere, you only have to turn off hyper-threading if you are sharing a machine with someone you don't trust. If you're reading this reply, you probably automatically executed `hn.js`. Are you _sure_ you know what it does? Unless you're browsing the web with Javascript completely disabled, and you also don't have any applications that automatically update…

AFAIK hyperthreading issues are related to some narrow set of bugs (zombieload?), which are extremely difficult to exploit, at least not in a browser. Correct me if Iam wrong.

Hyperthreading (SMT) is the most fruitful vector for side-channel leaks because so many processor resources are shared between the threads. This was the case even before Spectre.

Conceptually it's also the easiest vector to mitigate in the OS--simply schedule processes in different trust domains (e.g. different UIDs) on different physical cores. This is what good VM hypervisors do. You'll never be scheduled on a physical core in parallel with another AWS tenant, which is why the minimum vCPUs on AWS is always 2. But traditional kernel schedulers (Linux, macOS, Windows, et al) and user space APIs for this mitigation are still nowhere in sight.

Re: 10-core i9-10900F desktop CPU lags behind 8-core Ryzen 9 4900HS mobile APU

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Despite the protestations of l33t Cyberhaxxing Z3r0 Cools everywhere, you only have to turn off hyper-threading if you are sharing a machine with someone you don't trust. If you're reading this reply, you probably automatically executed `hn.js`. Are you _sure_ you know what it does? Unless you're browsing the web with Javascript completely disabled, and you also don't have any applications that automatically update…

If I should disable hyperthreading because of a hypothetical risk from an experimental proof of concept, shouldn't I also throw my PC into a dumpster because I don't know if the microcontroller controlling my LCD isn't also amplifying and Van Eck'ing my desktop to Chinese and Russian superspies waiting in a van outside? After all, I'm not _SURE_ I know what it's doing. Perhaps you don't particularly care about that r…

Because otherwise it's kind of hard to get system root from a single click in a (somewhat) sandboxed environment.

Re: 10-core i9-10900F desktop CPU lags behind 8-core Ryzen 9 4900HS mobile APU

#117
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK hyperthreading issues are related to some narrow set of bugs (zombieload?), which are extremely difficult to exploit, at least not in a browser. Correct me if Iam wrong.

Hyperthreading (SMT) is the most fruitful vector for side-channel leaks because so many processor resources are shared between the threads. This was the case even before Spectre. Conceptually it's also the easiest vector to mitigate in the OS--simply schedule processes in different trust domains (e.g. different UIDs) on different physical cores. This is what good VM hypervisors do. You'll never be scheduled on a phys…

Right, I understand it is not good in the cloud environments, but how exactly would you exploit it on a desktop Linux computer?

Re: 10-core i9-10900F desktop CPU lags behind 8-core Ryzen 9 4900HS mobile APU

#119
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B086K3NFQQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b... Is what we picked up. First time I've ordered a laptop without actually messing with it first. This likely will be used as more of a workstation/desktop replacement. Looking forward. Package just showed up! Unboxing now.

I'd love to see a comparison between this and a $3000 Macbook Pro. Plus, look at all those ports that Apple will never give you! Thanks for the link, this might be my new laptop.

It's very certainly faster by a healthy margin, with slightly worse build quality and a worse screen.

Re: 10-core i9-10900F desktop CPU lags behind 8-core Ryzen 9 4900HS mobile APU

#120
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If apple ever switches CPU supplier for their macbooks, it'll probably be for their own.

I guess they could buy AMD. Not that it would make any sense. :-)

I wonder how feasible it would be to remove the internal instruction set translation, thus making it not an x86 CPU, and doing translation in software.
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