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Could the Earth be an evaporated gas giant planet?

demystifyingscience.com

31–40 of 106 posts

Re: Could the Earth be an evaporated gas giant planet?

#31
post #27
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that this paper appeared in April 2019 in a journal called "Acta Prima Aprilia" should give you a clue to how seriously to take it.

The fact that the paper uses “CalTech” was the big clue for me. Also check out the references at the end. Some big clues there too.

Yes, I particularly liked the reference to Hesiod's Theogony (although the Beastie Boys one is more obvious).

Re: Could the Earth be an evaporated gas giant planet?

#32
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The principle is: the universe has been fine-tuned in order to ensure that life arises. 1. The only forms of life that we know about are on a planet with plentiful water and carbon dioxide. 2. Planetary dynamics may favor the production of such planets by the evaporation of gas giants. Ergo, the rules of planetary dynamics appear to favor habitats for life as we know it. This appearance may be just an artifact of our…

I think you may be mixing up the causation. How probable our universe is, we'll never know (until we can see other universes). We do know that in this universe, life exists. Thus our universe has to be "fine-tuned" for us to exist because we do. As for the universe "favor"ing life, that doesn't really make sense either. I think it's safe to say the universe favors stars, gas giants, black holes but it's pretty hard t…

I mean, you can calculate the probability of an abiogenesis event on pre-biotic Earth (or in our Universe in general), and then run the probability against the known number of solar systems/planets/atoms in the known universe.

Whether or not the universe favored life can be interpreted from the resulting improbability and the current results. Stars, gas giants, and black holes are probable.

Re: Could the Earth be an evaporated gas giant planet?

#33
post #10
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would also tend to support the strong anthropic principle. How does it support that?

The principle is: the universe has been fine-tuned in order to ensure that life arises. 1. The only forms of life that we know about are on a planet with plentiful water and carbon dioxide. 2. Planetary dynamics may favor the production of such planets by the evaporation of gas giants. Ergo, the rules of planetary dynamics appear to favor habitats for life as we know it. This appearance may be just an artifact of our…

I always felt like this simply lacked imagination.

If it were that there were parameters to tweak certainly many combinations would lead to degenerate solutions, but many that wouldn't and complexity would be found in many of them, some of it familiar, some beyond our imagination.

For mathematical dynamical systems (chaos theory) you'll find that you can tweak parameters. Some changes result in overall recognizable behavior, some changes result in completely different but still chaotic behavior, some changes result in boring, essentially empty solutions.

The universe is one big dynaimcal system; there's no reason to believe that if it is a function of certain chosen parameters, it is the only solution that would result in life.

Re: Could the Earth be an evaporated gas giant planet?

#34
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to wikipedia, Venus' atmosphere is about 3.5% nitrogen and its pressure is about 91 atmospheres. So, technically Venus doesn't have a lack of nitrogen (it appears to have about 3 times as much as Earth), it has an extreme abundance of carbon dioxide. Something interesting I didn't know is that apparently Venus has almost no plain oxygen. Mars, on the other hand, doesn't have much nitrogen. Perhaps that's at…

Venus has no plain oxygen because oxygen is reactive. It probably requires life to break apart CO2 and cast off the O2 into the atmosphere. Certainly it required life to do that on Earth.

Pretty much. Earth's reducing, oxygenating atmosphere is an anomaly that did not exist before stromataliths.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stromatolite#cite_ref-PiP_15-1

Re: Could the Earth be an evaporated gas giant planet?

#35
NO. If solar wind caused a gas layer to evaporate, Earth shouldn't have the atmosphere it does. This planet should be like those surrounding it. Those same solar winds/radiation would have made sure of that. The issue I have with this is the same issue I have with evolution. If conditions were not created to favor life why are we the only planet with any known life & which is perfectly suited to a variety of life? Do you really think that's a coincidence? Scientists are constantly coming up with one ridiculous theory after another to explain why no evidence of life has been found outside our planet instead of just acknowledging that this planet is unique because it was designed that way.

Re: Could the Earth be an evaporated gas giant planet?

#36

AFAIK Nitrogen in the initial atmosphere rules this out.

Is there a succinct explanation of why some terrestial bodies in the solar system (Earth, Titan, Triton, Pluto) have mostly nitrogen atmospheres, but others (Mars, Venus) are mostly carbon dioxide instead? I mean, aside from specifics about each, what's the pattern that you would apply to an arbitrary planet?

It's not a pattern of ratio or composition, it's a pattern of the quantity of each individual component. The individual quantities then constitute the composition.

For CO2, the pattern is temperature. Titan, Triton, Pluto are well below CO2's freezing point so it stays on the surface as ice instead of atmosphere. At these temperatures, nitrogen is the heaviest abundant molecule that remains gaseous, followed by methane. If you're warm enough for gaseous CO2, you have it. The only exception is Earth and that's because plant life absorbed it and emitted O2 instead.

For nitrogen, methane, argon, the pattern is mass. Only Venus and Earth have enough mass to hold on to those, compared to heavier CO2. Venus and Earth have similar quantities of those. Venus's excess of CO2 comes from temperature high enough to evaporate carbon and oxygen from rock compounds.

Re: Could the Earth be an evaporated gas giant planet?

#37

NO. If solar wind caused a gas layer to evaporate, Earth shouldn't have the atmosphere it does. This planet should be like those surrounding it. Those same solar winds/radiation would have made sure of that. The issue I have with this is the same issue I have with evolution. If conditions were not created to favor life why are we the only planet with any known life & which is perfectly suited to a variety of life? Do…

Huh? No scientist claims to have ultimate knowledge of why there is life on earth. But to claim that Earth was created for life is leap too far. I mean we used to believe storms where conjured up by the gods because we didn't understand how they really are created. What you are saying is essentially the same. We don't know so it must have been created. You are essentially invoking the God-of-the-gaps fallacy.

Re: Could the Earth be an evaporated gas giant planet?

#38
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The principle is: the universe has been fine-tuned in order to ensure that life arises. 1. The only forms of life that we know about are on a planet with plentiful water and carbon dioxide. 2. Planetary dynamics may favor the production of such planets by the evaporation of gas giants. Ergo, the rules of planetary dynamics appear to favor habitats for life as we know it. This appearance may be just an artifact of our…

I think you may be mixing up the causation. How probable our universe is, we'll never know (until we can see other universes). We do know that in this universe, life exists. Thus our universe has to be "fine-tuned" for us to exist because we do. As for the universe "favor"ing life, that doesn't really make sense either. I think it's safe to say the universe favors stars, gas giants, black holes but it's pretty hard t…

Isn't this the distinction between the Strong Anthropic Principle and the Weak Anthropic Principle?

WAP: we're going to see selection bias in our universe because the preconditions for life must have been satisfied for us to exist within it.

SAP: all universes must satisfy the preconditions for life because cogito ergo sum -- the definition of existence requires life to perceive it.

I've probably sold SAP short because my own model of existence doesn't require perception, but clearly by this point we're well within the realm of philosophy.

Re: Could the Earth be an evaporated gas giant planet?

#39
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This could be a boon to scifi plots But can they outgrow the trope of every alien being a human-in-a-mask?

Not until CGI aliens with non-humanoid body plans become cheaper than masks on human actors.

It's the relatability to the audience that mandates they have human faces. ... because humans can only interpret the facial expressions and emotions of other human faces.

Star Trek was never meant to be Sci-fi so much as soap opera in space.

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