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10-core i9-10900F desktop CPU lags behind 8-core Ryzen 9 4900HS mobile APU

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Re: 10-core i9-10900F desktop CPU lags behind 8-core Ryzen 9 4900HS mobile APU

#51

Post by jeffnappi »

nicoburns wrote: post #16

I'm really hoping apple puts these AMD mobile chips in their next MacBook Pro. At the moment I'm not seeing much reason to upgrade from my 2015 model, but if I could have 8 cores, that would a different matter...

One of the key reasons we might not see this yet is Thunderbolt 3 support. Thunderbolt is noticeably missing from the new AMD laptops on the market - e.g. the Asus ROG Zephyrus G14 (2020). Thunderbolt itself is an Intel technology.

The emergence of USB 4 (effectively TB3) as a standard will change that. Perhaps we'll see that become available in AMD's next generation of CPUs.

Re: 10-core i9-10900F desktop CPU lags behind 8-core Ryzen 9 4900HS mobile APU

#52

Post by 013a »

derefr wrote: post #34
leeter wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So where do I find the actual maximum power consumption on recent desktop CPUs then? Unfortunately you do this by putting it on a motherboard and and generally putting an amp meter on the 12v EPS rail. Either that or just power from wall. The CPU vendors have worked really hard to hide this. Mostly because for most people it's largely irrelevant these days as the CPU will scale to cooling and power delivery. There…

You'd think "power consumption for prolonged 100% all-cores workload" would be the most relevant thing when selling server chips specifically, though, since it translates directly into OpEx. And yet even on those data sheets it's nowhere to be found.

Prolonged 100% all-core workloads, at what clock speed? With what cooling solution?

All of these factors are variable. You could produce a number that says "the maximum clock the part is capable of, with a perfect cooling solution", but that number would never be reached in anything short of a liquid nitrogen testbench, and thus would be pointless outside of an academic setting. Intel was literally demonized for trying something similar to this two years ago, when they benchmarked a 28 core 5Ghz chip without disclosing that it was overclocked, and hooked up to an industrial water cooler [1].

In reality, this number can be found, but it would be an irrelevant number.

[1] https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-28-core-cpu-5ghz,372...

Re: 10-core i9-10900F desktop CPU lags behind 8-core Ryzen 9 4900HS mobile APU

#54

Post by thawaway1837 »

derefr wrote: post #34
leeter wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So where do I find the actual maximum power consumption on recent desktop CPUs then? Unfortunately you do this by putting it on a motherboard and and generally putting an amp meter on the 12v EPS rail. Either that or just power from wall. The CPU vendors have worked really hard to hide this. Mostly because for most people it's largely irrelevant these days as the CPU will scale to cooling and power delivery. There…

You'd think "power consumption for prolonged 100% all-cores workload" would be the most relevant thing when selling server chips specifically, though, since it translates directly into OpEx. And yet even on those data sheets it's nowhere to be found.

If you’re selling server chips you’re likely selling to clients who are gonna do their own tests and trials under their use cases anyways. They aren’t even gonna look at numbers supplied by the manufacturer.

And if you advertise power consumption for those kind of workloads (100% usage) to regular consumers, who are probably gonna buy 1 computer every 3-5 years, you’re disincentivized from optimizing the kind of stuff that have seen real gains, such as designs that aggressively and cheaply turn on/off systems, or clever decisions to run the chip slower than its max output to improve power consumption, without making an impact noticeable by a human user.

Re: 10-core i9-10900F desktop CPU lags behind 8-core Ryzen 9 4900HS mobile APU

#55

Post by vijaybritto »

jeffnappi wrote: post #51
nicoburns wrote: post #16

I'm really hoping apple puts these AMD mobile chips in their next MacBook Pro. At the moment I'm not seeing much reason to upgrade from my 2015 model, but if I could have 8 cores, that would a different matter...

One of the key reasons we might not see this yet is Thunderbolt 3 support. Thunderbolt is noticeably missing from the new AMD laptops on the market - e.g. the Asus ROG Zephyrus G14 (2020). Thunderbolt itself is an Intel technology. The emergence of USB 4 (effectively TB3) as a standard will change that. Perhaps we'll see that become available in AMD's next generation of CPUs.

Is thunderbolt support tied to the CPU?? I thought it was just a slot that can be added in the mother board for any powerful CPU

Re: 10-core i9-10900F desktop CPU lags behind 8-core Ryzen 9 4900HS mobile APU

#56

Post by theevilsharpie »

kilo_bravo_3 wrote: post #46
briffle wrote: post #2

Does this new intel CPU have 'fixes' for all issues like spectre and meltdown, where you were supposed to turn off hyperthreading for better security? I'm just curious if the fixes for those (and other similar vulnerabilities) are starting to make their way into silicon, but also that the fixes recommended usually slow cpu's down quite a bit too.

Despite the protestations of l33t Cyberhaxxing Z3r0 Cools everywhere, you only have to turn off hyper-threading if you are sharing a machine with someone you don't trust. If someone is on your machine and you don't know it, they don't have to use side-channel attacks. They'll can just use any of the thousands of other ways of privilege escalation to read the super-secret information you have stored in RAM, or find it…

> Despite the protestations of l33t Cyberhaxxing Z3r0 Cools everywhere, you only have to turn off hyper-threading if you are sharing a machine with someone you don't trust.

If you're reading this reply, you probably automatically executed `hn.js`. Are you _sure_ you know what it does?

Unless you're browsing the web with Javascript completely disabled, and you also don't have any applications that automatically update themselves from a remote source (are you _sure_ you know what those various auto-updaters are downloading?), you're running untrusted code on your machine.

Perhaps you don't particularly care about that risk, or you don't feel the risk is severe enough to warrant the performance hit, which is fair, but the risk is there nonetheless.

Re: 10-core i9-10900F desktop CPU lags behind 8-core Ryzen 9 4900HS mobile APU

#57

Post by sudosysgen »

pram wrote: post #43
nicoburns wrote: post #16

I'm really hoping apple puts these AMD mobile chips in their next MacBook Pro. At the moment I'm not seeing much reason to upgrade from my 2015 model, but if I could have 8 cores, that would a different matter...

The i9 in a 16 inch MBP is 8 cores though?

Thermal throttling and energy saving when using all the cores on a laptop i9 means that the 4000 series 8 cores are on a league of their own.

Re: 10-core i9-10900F desktop CPU lags behind 8-core Ryzen 9 4900HS mobile APU

#58

Post by Avery3R »

charwalker wrote: post #13
Tempest1981 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, 9900 was much easier to say... how do you pronounce 10900? "Ten-thousand-nine-hundred"? Feels tortured. "Ten-nine-hundred"? Yeesh.

Ten-Nine Hundred is what I've seen on YouTube recently and I like it.

It works semantically too. You say the generation first, then the specific model within that generation.

Re: 10-core i9-10900F desktop CPU lags behind 8-core Ryzen 9 4900HS mobile APU

#59

Post by lolc »

Flow wrote: post #47
kabdib wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess they could buy AMD. Not that it would make any sense. :-)

I think AMD will lose its x86 license then. https://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/anton-shilo...

The way I read it, Intel would lose it too. Neither Intel nor Apple could afford losing it for even one day. It would thoroughly damage their brand.

Re: 10-core i9-10900F desktop CPU lags behind 8-core Ryzen 9 4900HS mobile APU

#60

Post by formercoder »

heelix wrote: post #49

I've got a 4800hs 8-core laptop that should be showing up on my doorstep later today. My kid is doing some heavy video/graphics work in Adobe in her undergraduate program, and going to try this as a potential desktop/workstation replacement since she is still a bit of a nomad as a student. Her current laptop just can't handle the work without trying to cook itself - but will have some apples to apples rendering compa…

Nice - assuming it has USB-C? The external USB-C SSDs are great for source media.
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