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What does a Director of Engineering do?

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Re: What does a Director of Engineering do?

#81

Post by darkerside »

lliamander wrote: post #44
Traster wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll tell you what amazes me: If you look at any reasonably large engineering organisation they will likely have guidance published from HR stating what the criteria are for different job roles, and they'll actually be pretty similar across different organisations. You might be a Senior Software Engineer at one place but called a Staff engineer at another place, but they're broadly comparable, and the seniority crite…

I've worked at those kinds of organizations, read the documents, put in the work, and got promoted...by switching companies :). In my experience, the companies that do have those documents (and not all do) don't actually really use them or make much reference to them in 1-on-1's or reviews. That's because management's perspective is that they are interested in how well you are doing at the job they hired you for, not…

In my experience, I've seen plenty of promotions from within (and experienced my fair share as well). They just take a while to happen. But then, I've been at multiple companies for over 5 years. That's probably about how long it takes to watch someone grow from an individual contributor into a leader, including leadership skills as well as building reputational and political capital across the organization.

Patience is a virtue.

Re: What does a Director of Engineering do?

#82

Post by majormajor »

cozos wrote: post #57
Traster wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll tell you what amazes me: If you look at any reasonably large engineering organisation they will likely have guidance published from HR stating what the criteria are for different job roles, and they'll actually be pretty similar across different organisations. You might be a Senior Software Engineer at one place but called a Staff engineer at another place, but they're broadly comparable, and the seniority crite…

Would you rather have your organization be filled with engineers that output high quality work or so-called Staff Engineer influencers? Personally I would rather most to be the former. Doers are important (probably the most important) and should be rewarded, IMO. Hard work and no promotion leads to quitting. Getting promoted to Staff etc is more about being put on important projects, building relationships with manag…

Organizations that are filled purely with "doers" who don't make their coworkers better provide a great perpetual need for people to come in and clean up the mess later at often higher pay. :p

But maybe there's more than just "sloppy isolated doers" and "no-code-writing influencer staff timewasters"...

A doer who does help everyone around them keep the codebase clean too... well... yep, that's the influencer part. So yeah, definitely want that.

Re: What does a Director of Engineering do?

#83

Post by majormajor »

dchyrdvh wrote: post #61
ebiester wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on where you are in your career. If you are a below average developer, do like they say in the airplane and "put on your own mask before assisting others." If you are an above average developer, you will be noticed by being the person who helps others more than solving every problem. At some point in your career, your influence by your own two hands reaches a plateau. You are a senior engineer. How are the…

I've been there and only learnt that this "wait to be chosen" attitude never pays off. It's rewarded, but the reward is a pittance compared to what that energy could buy. My advise to myself 20yo would be: learn how to deal with people, learn how organizations work, build capital and get onto the money side of things; but don't let your ego get tricked into the shiny tech lead and manager titles as those are only mir…

> I've been there and only learnt that this "wait to be chosen" attitude never pays off. It's rewarded, but the reward is a pittance compared to what that energy could buy.

Wait to be chosen is the opposite of what I think most people are saying here.

You have to actively find out what is important to your organization and how to make both yourself and other people better in those areas.

Re: What does a Director of Engineering do?

#84

Post by deckard1 »

ebiester wrote: post #55
dchyrdvh wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 1% contribution to others is good for the manager, because he gets to take credit for the entire team. The 10% self improvement is good for that individual, because he can leverage that into a better paying role.

It depends on where you are in your career. If you are a below average developer, do like they say in the airplane and "put on your own mask before assisting others." If you are an above average developer, you will be noticed by being the person who helps others more than solving every problem. At some point in your career, your influence by your own two hands reaches a plateau. You are a senior engineer. How are the…

> I can speak by experience that the tech lead is often not the most technically proficient on the team.

In my experience, this is mostly true. I've worked with some tech leads that had really average skills, at best.

> They are the one who talks with the most people beyond their team.

You're almost there.

Here is what I've noticed, about those who do get promoted (to tech lead and beyond): they get noticed by being the loudest in the room. They do presentations, they organize meetings (that they lead), and they are in the spotlight. Never giving it up to anyone. Me, me, me.

None of that means they are worth a damn, though. Some of these same people have led the company down technical dead ends or strapped the company with expensive tech debt and maintenance. Managers won't care though because that's their guy (or gal). Managers are really poor at recognizing bullshit and really good at justifying decisions they have made. Beyond covering their ass, it's really hard, psychologically, to admit you've really screwed up. And even harder to undo that mistake. This is how companies go under. All the time.

Very few of the tech leads I've witnessed actually help their coworkers. Especially once they've made the promotion. They tend to just vanish at that point, and camp out on projects they want to do and screw everyone else. Out of 10 tech leads, I'd say the ratio is maybe 2-3 good ones.

Re: What does a Director of Engineering do?

#85

Post by UK-Al05 »

majormajor wrote: post #82
cozos wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you rather have your organization be filled with engineers that output high quality work or so-called Staff Engineer influencers? Personally I would rather most to be the former. Doers are important (probably the most important) and should be rewarded, IMO. Hard work and no promotion leads to quitting. Getting promoted to Staff etc is more about being put on important projects, building relationships with manag…

Organizations that are filled purely with "doers" who don't make their coworkers better provide a great perpetual need for people to come in and clean up the mess later at often higher pay. :p But maybe there's more than just "sloppy isolated doers" and "no-code-writing influencer staff timewasters"... A doer who does help everyone around them keep the codebase clean too... well... yep, that's the influencer part. So…

Pairing code, code review, Friday learning seasons where everyone pitches are often far better than organisational concept of mentors.

Re: What does a Director of Engineering do?

#86

Post by irrational »

sibeliuss wrote: post #77
irrational wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why people want to be promoted. I've worked for the same company for nearly 2 decades. I'm basically doing the same job as when I started. I don't want more work or more responsibilities. I'm happy staying in my groove. In that time my pay has more than doubled. Recently my boss informed me that they were giving me a 15% raise. I didn't ask for a raise. I don't have to do any more work. Frankly I'v…

I feel the exact same way. When I have 1:1s with my manager the topic of career progression often comes up and I kinda feel bad saying I'm perfectly happy as a sr engineer who is dependable and does good work.

I think of it as there are 2 ways to grow your career. Vertical and Horizontal. Vertical growth is another name for promotions. It involves having more people reporting to you. Horizontal growth is gaining new skills/technologies/knowledge/etc. I prefer the second, and so far my company has rewarded me financially for doing so.

Re: What does a Director of Engineering do?

#87

Post by Lammy »

irrational wrote: post #62
lliamander wrote: post #23

> I used to think hard work leads to promotion. This is because I didn't understand why different positions exist outside of a title change. Now I see things a bit differently. If an individual on my team is working hard, I'm going to keep them where they are because they're getting the job done. Rather, I'm looking to elevate my 10x engineer - not the one that's the doing their job well but the one thats mentoring t…

I don't understand why people want to be promoted. I've worked for the same company for nearly 2 decades. I'm basically doing the same job as when I started. I don't want more work or more responsibilities. I'm happy staying in my groove. In that time my pay has more than doubled. Recently my boss informed me that they were giving me a 15% raise. I didn't ask for a raise. I don't have to do any more work. Frankly I'v…

That’s fine as long as you are able to keep that position but leaves you increasingly vulnerability to chance events as the years pass. Entire companies have imploded despite being made to appear healthy, like Enron. A personality conflict with one well-connected person could have them try to push you out. Any number of things. If two hypothetical people competed in the job market with similar skill sets but a twenty year age difference I know which one I’d expect to see hired first.

I’m sure that’s not actually true for you anyway since it would be really hard to not gain an immense breadth of knowledge from twenty years of constant industry exposure. Breadth might not pay as well as depth, but you probably aren’t giving yourself enough credit if it felt so gradual.

Re: What does a Director of Engineering do?

#89

Post by gtaylor »

sibeliuss wrote: post #77
irrational wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why people want to be promoted. I've worked for the same company for nearly 2 decades. I'm basically doing the same job as when I started. I don't want more work or more responsibilities. I'm happy staying in my groove. In that time my pay has more than doubled. Recently my boss informed me that they were giving me a 15% raise. I didn't ask for a raise. I don't have to do any more work. Frankly I'v…

I feel the exact same way. When I have 1:1s with my manager the topic of career progression often comes up and I kinda feel bad saying I'm perfectly happy as a sr engineer who is dependable and does good work.

Hey, you do you! If you have reached equilibrium in that you are happy and fulfilled and also a productive member of the team, that seems great for all parties involved.

Re: What does a Director of Engineering do?

#90

Post by blanchoir »

Titles, titles, titles... 90% of companies don't need 80% of the titles they use. We like to mimic the giants and the unicorns but the reality is those positions overlap so much in smaller / medium sized startups where one guy is doing the job of 2. We need to grow our organizations and the culture strategically and only when necessary. This will also save people a ton of money.
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