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Some Rich Americans Are Getting Stimulus ‘Checks’ Averaging $1.7M

forbes.com

71–80 of 112 posts

Re: Some Rich Americans Are Getting Stimulus ‘Checks’ Averaging $1.7M

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something really needs to be done about downvote brigading on HN. At least people should be required to provide a reason for the downvote.

I've wondered if a five-a-day downvote limit would benefit HN.

Slashdot had (still has as far as I know) a daily limit on up and down votes, and quite a small one at that (I think 5?). It also prevents you from voting and commenting on the same topic.

Re: Some Rich Americans Are Getting Stimulus ‘Checks’ Averaging $1.7M

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've wondered if a five-a-day downvote limit would benefit HN.

Or just make it cost karma. Anyone that down-votes too much would wind up at the threshold for down-voting and be rate limited by their ability to make up-voted comments. It would also render ineffective the strategy of having a bunch of accounts with enough karma to downvote and using those accounts all at once to make comments you don't like dead (the presence of corporate or state controlled accounts employing thi…

The way to game that is to just upvote random comments that you don't care about in stories that you don't care about, just to have made enough upvotes to enable you to downvote again.

Re: Some Rich Americans Are Getting Stimulus ‘Checks’ Averaging $1.7M

#73
post #32

If I am understanding this correctly, there is no money flowing to rich Americans, but they will have additional opportunities to deduct losses on their 2020 taxes (basically paying less in taxes after a major stock market rout) that would normally need to be spread over future tax returns indefinitely. However, this will only occur if they took losses, so it is really a discount of ~35% on negative income. This woul…

My understanding is "losses" is kinda vague if you own one of these "pass through" entities you can pay yourself a salary, have the "pass through" business loose money then pass that loss off against your personal income. I'm not a accountant so I might be wrong. I know a CPA and they have noted that there have been calls from wealthy clients looking for loopholes to save money on taxes, based on the stimulus. Money…

I thought the benefit of pass-through entities was the opposite--push through what would otherwise be salary as lesser-taxed (no FICA) profit?

If your company has $100k to play with, paying $200k salary to take $100k loss is not a good move.

Re: Some Rich Americans Are Getting Stimulus ‘Checks’ Averaging $1.7M

#74
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is "losses" is kinda vague if you own one of these "pass through" entities you can pay yourself a salary, have the "pass through" business loose money then pass that loss off against your personal income. I'm not a accountant so I might be wrong. I know a CPA and they have noted that there have been calls from wealthy clients looking for loopholes to save money on taxes, based on the stimulus. Money…

I believe if you elect to be a pass-through LLC (eligible for this rule change), you cannot pay yourself a salary in the same way as if you were a non pass-through LLC or S-Corp. It isn't as easy to cheat the system as most people think, but there seem to be more opportunities to finagle things the more assets you own. The fundamental way our tax code is broken is not loopholes, but the actual publicly known tax brac…

yes, please. sign me up for all of the above. let's get a fairer, more dynamic economy that discouraging rent-seeking and encourages risk-taking and innovation. wealth concentration is a symptom of a broken, plutocratic system, not a capitalistic one.

Re: Some Rich Americans Are Getting Stimulus ‘Checks’ Averaging $1.7M

#75
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something really needs to be done about downvote brigading on HN. At least people should be required to provide a reason for the downvote.

The limit is about three comments every couple of hours or so. Downvotes on the other hand, are limitless. That should not change while there is a limit on comments. Voting is really the only major way to interact with this site. Three comments every few hours leave no room for actual discussion.

That's because your account is rate-limited. We rate limit accounts when they post too many low-quality comments too quickly and/or get involved in flamewars. We're happy to take the rate limit off (and often do) when people give us reason to believe that they'll use the site as intended in the future. Emailing hn@ycombinator.com is the best way to do that.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Edit: I took a look at your account's recent comments because often we just remove rate limits when the problem has been corrected. Unfortunately, in this case the opposite is true. Would you please stop using HN primarily for political and ideological battle? It destroys the curious conversation that HN is intended for, so we have to ban accounts that do it.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Some Rich Americans Are Getting Stimulus ‘Checks’ Averaging $1.7M

#76
post #60
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not scalable. But maybe a 1/N probability of being required to do so, for reasonable N. (Edit: something like slashdots categories could work but you’d need some incentive to be truthful rather than trust them to separate a “troll” from a “disagree”.) Plus, if anything, I’d say it’s more common for there to be a bias against downvoting relative to upvoting.

Maybe- comment required to downvote, or upvote on existing child comment required to downvote

Oh nice, so you have to endorse some existing response (which could be your own) in order to downvote. That could work!

Re: Some Rich Americans Are Getting Stimulus ‘Checks’ Averaging $1.7M

#77
post #36
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason why you get better yields from being a landlord or investing in shares than from keeping it in the bank is because you also accept risk. These people accepted the risk, and their reward during normal times is a better yield. By bailing them out (and specifically only the ones who also get income tax)

It seems they also got a reward during the tough times

It’s one thing to make a profit or a loss, it’s another thing when a government forces you to take a loss to subsidize someone else. If there was a risk that you’d be forced by the government to take huge losses then that risk should be priced into the rent — which means future rents will have to be much higher to accommodate the increased risk. Imagine if a grocery store were required to give free food to everyone at the command of the government. Who covers that expense? The shopkeeper? Any shops that managed to survive would have to jack up future prices to recover their loss. The risk of the government taking away your inventory and giving it away uncompensated is unprecedented. You can’t evict and you can’t collect rent because of a government decree — that’s effectively a seizure of property which is illegal without due process. Even eminent domain requires fair compensation to the property owner. If you accept this as acceptable, then what’s to stop the government from taking all of your income and giving it away? Why is your income supposed to be safe from seizure but someone else’s isn’t?

Re: Some Rich Americans Are Getting Stimulus ‘Checks’ Averaging $1.7M

#78
post #32

If I am understanding this correctly, there is no money flowing to rich Americans, but they will have additional opportunities to deduct losses on their 2020 taxes (basically paying less in taxes after a major stock market rout) that would normally need to be spread over future tax returns indefinitely. However, this will only occur if they took losses, so it is really a discount of ~35% on negative income. This woul…

>on their 2020 taxes (basically paying less in taxes after a major stock market rout)

because of additional language that applies the policy retroactively “so losses in 2018 and 2019 can be ‘carried back’ against the past five years.”

Re: Some Rich Americans Are Getting Stimulus ‘Checks’ Averaging $1.7M

#79
It found that, “82 percent of the benefits of the policy go to about 43,000 taxpayers who earn more than $1 million annually.”

Why is that surprising? The people that pay the most tax have the most benefit from a tax break.

It's no different than saying a family making $30,000 per year don't benefit from tax breaks, but leaving out the fact they don't pay any tax anyways.

Re: Some Rich Americans Are Getting Stimulus ‘Checks’ Averaging $1.7M

#80
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn’t seem hard to argue I agree, but it doesn't make any sense. Investing is literally putting money to work. Storing it in a mattress is not putting it to work. For example, what happens to the money when people buy real estate? The seller of that real estate gets the money. They don't hoard it, they also spend/invest it. What happens to the money you put in your bank account? The bank loans it out to people…

Unfortunately, when wealthy people get money they do not spend it on goods and services that employ people and drive the economY. Rather, the invest it in the financial vehicle with the highest ROI. Giving money to the rich does not trickle down to people. It goes into a holding pattern of financial engineering. That maybe why there has not been any inflation with all the quantitative easing that has been going on th…

> when wealthy people get money they do not spend it on goods and services that employ people and drive the economy

That’s such a naïve statement. Those financial vehicles actually do things: provide capital for other businesses. Provide market liquidity so that capital can flow to the areas that are in demand. Grandma saving money under the mattress does a lot less than a “rich” person investing in REITs.

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