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Study: No evidence of efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalized patients

medrxiv.org

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Re: Study: No evidence of efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalized patients

#251

Post by renewiltord »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #239
renewiltord wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re overestimating the difficulty of this. But don’t trust me. Go talk to a generics drug manufacturer in India yourself.

> Go talk to a generics drug manufacturer in India yourself. You mean the country that, more than a month ago, restricted exports of many drugs and chemicals used to make drugs (the so-called Active Pharmaceutical Ingredients). Your local end of the pharmaceutical supply chain can't deliver drugs that can't be made anymore.

Hydroxychloroquine is exportable to the US from India currently. If I had lupus, I assure you I wouldn’t be sitting here worrying about my dose.

Re: Study: No evidence of efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalized patients

#252

Post by krn320 »

There is an obvious pushback on hydroxychloroquine. Not enough money to be made so other "solutions" are preferred. Something that was used for more than 50 years is being tested for safety? What a joke. I'm sure when vaccines arrive they'll be "safe and effective" and used all around the world from day one...

Re: Study: No evidence of efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalized patients

#253

Post by dwaltrip »

thedudeabides5 wrote: post #75
capnrefsmmat wrote: post #49

It's important to interpret these results carefully: "no evidence of efficacy" does not imply evidence of no efficacy, and in fact the uncertainty in this study is quite large. The sample size is small enough that it would be very hard for this study to detect the effect of hydroxychloroquine unless that effect is very, very large. From the abstract: > In the HCQ group, 2.8% of the patients died within 7 days vs 4.6%…

This is a great comment thanks. Title of the paper could (with a tongue firmly in cheek) be called, "Weak evidence for effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine but our sample was likely too small for it to pass a T-test"

It is not evidence (weak or otherwise) for the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine. Your version is misleading.

Re: Study: No evidence of efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalized patients

#254

Post by downerending »

fzeroracer wrote: post #233
downerending wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's "irrational" to oppose an idea just because it comes from someone you despise. It's not like this is coming from the National Enquirer --he has access to some of the brightest minds in the world. The efficacy picture on these drugs is quite confusing, and it's not out of the question that they will turn out to be crucially useful. Giving up on them without further investigation doesn't seem wise at this point. B…

Let's say Trump instead proposed that people taking, I don't know, silver supplements was a proper treatment for covid-19. Would you say it's irrational to oppose that idea? I mean it's not been proven to not work, so you gotta try anything you can, right? And he's giving people hope.

If a lot of scientists world-wide were looking at it, yes, I would think that irrational to not consider silver supplements. As far as I know, Trump has never advocated taking any drug without medical guidance.

We were (and largely still are) dealing with a lot of unknowns. As far as I'm concerned, everything is on the table, as a possible improvement.

Re: Study: No evidence of efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalized patients

#255

Post by dang »

bcrosby95 wrote: post #111

And to put this interpretation into perspective, people that need this drug for diseases that it has proven to have a large effect on are losing access to it because it may or may not help with COVID-19.

(This subthread was originally a reply to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22880291)

Re: Study: No evidence of efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalized patients

#256

Post by twomoretime »

Goronmon wrote: post #187
twomoretime wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> https://youtu.be/oWQjWepaDv0 "Very promising early results". > https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+tweet+chloroquine&prmd... "Have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers" Meanwhile the media response has been universally lamenting that a president would "tell people" [he didn't] to take this drug. How many outlets jumped on the single chloroquine phosphate overdose as proof of the president's respon…

"Have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers" and "Hopefully both will be used immediately. PEOPLE ARE DYING, MOVE FAST" Both seem pretty ridiculous when we don't even know if its effective at all, let alone "one of the biggest game changers".

There were multiple papers out of Europe and China by then. This was already floating around before Trump latched onto it because it was indeed promising, which is exactly what Trump said.

What else do you think the words "hopefully" and "real chance" are here to communicate?

What do you think "move fast" means? Administer the cure to everyone, or figure out if it works?

This was a clearly promising avenue and as the head of the executive this is one of the few things that the man has done right. This vitriol is pure, irrational bias.

Re: Study: No evidence of efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalized patients

#257

Post by krn320 »

There is an obvious pushback for hydroxychloroquine. Something that was used for more than 50 years should've been widely adopted by now but there is not enough money to be made (and let's not forget political issues). I'm sure when vaccine arrives it'll be "safe and effective" and widely used around the world from day one - no questions asked.

Re: Study: No evidence of efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalized patients

#258

Post by [deleted] »

ModernMech wrote: post #243
_ea1k wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Noone endorsed an unproven drug.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/12413672399007785... HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE & AZITHROMYCIN, taken together, have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine. The FDA has moved mountains - Thank You! Hopefully they will BOTH (H works better with A, International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents).........be put in use IMMEDIATELY. PEOPLE ARE DYING, MOVE FAST, and GOD BLESS EVER…

[deleted]

Re: Study: No evidence of efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalized patients

#259

Post by cameldrv »

The study is way underpowered (too small a sample). Based on the raw numbers, the HCQ group had less deaths and less ICU admissions, but the numbers we're talking about are 3 vs. 4 deaths and 16 vs. 21 ICU admissions (group sizes were different).

These numbers simply aren't enough to make a determination one way or the other. On mortality, the 95% confidence interval allows for a range of HCQ reducing death rates by 87% up to it increasing death rates by 2.9x.

Re: Study: No evidence of efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalized patients

#260

Post by ModernMech »

Symmetry wrote: post #98
CydeWeys wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be, but it's gonna be harder logistically to do a study commencing from onset of symptoms vs at moment of hospitalization. There's also the fact that study makes it less likely that pre-hospitalization HCQ will have any effect either. Applying a Bayesian analysis here, it's now likelier that the true ground truth is simply that HCQ doesn't do anything to COVID-19 at all, not necessarily that it works only in…

The study that made me think there might be something to it was looking at people taking it for unrelated illnesses and finding that they weren't tending to show up hospitalized with Covid-19. I'd agree that we really don't have any evidence that giving it to hospitalized patients helps at all. Most antivirals have to be taken at the early stages of an infection. The best looking treatment for people seriously ill wi…

This could be correlation. People taking HCQ have autoimmune problems like lupus, and therefore would be more cautious and practicing social distancing earlier, therefore not getting infected in the first place. It also might be true that people who are agoraphobic shut ins are not contracting covid. But that doesn't tell us much about how covid interacts with agoraphobia.
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