Live data from Hacker News

Olive tree disease across Europe 'could costs billions'

bbc.com

91–95 of 95 posts

Re: Olive tree disease across Europe 'could costs billions'

#91
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For a EU citizen buying from Italy, Greece, or Spain makes more sense than buying from Morocco because it's far more likely that a weaker local EU economy will negatively affect their country or the EU than a weak Moroccan economy. No. You are implying that buying locally strengthens the domestic economy whereas importing weakens the domestic economy. That reasoning is flawed as a general principle (even though it m…

> No. You are implying that buying locally strengthens the domestic economy whereas importing weakens the domestic economy The more customers local businesses lose in favor of off-shore producers the weaker they get, to the point where they disappear or become importers. If you're an EU citizen you're more likely to be impacted if another EU country's economy isn't going well than if Morocco's economy suffers. One th…

>The more customers local businesses lose in favor of off-shore producers the weaker they get, to the point where they disappear or become importers.

Yes, that is a possibility and it happens all the time. But what are some possible outcomes for the economy as a whole?

a) Domestic producers improve productivity and standards so they can compete with lower wages elsewhere.

b) Domestic producers move up the value chain importing lower value goods and services.

c) The domestic economy declines while a foreign one rises.

Your economic model only allows for c while some combination of a and b has been the basis for our economic progress and prosperity. That's why I disagree with you.

Your morals/pity accusation is a misunderstanding predicated on your assumption that importing goods we could produce ourselves hurts our economy. As I do not agree with that assumption, it follows that morals or pity couldn't possibly have been my motivation for bringing up migration.

My motivation for bringing it up was that trading with these countries is an opportunity to act in our mutual interest. It can benefit both sides and it is an opportunity to do what keeps getting repeated every time we have a migration crisis: Improve living standards in our neighboring regions. We shouldn't waste this opportunity based on some flawed mercantilist economic model.

Re: Olive tree disease across Europe 'could costs billions'

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't doubt that it's a good idea to have some local food production everywhere. But huge olive plantations in Spain, Italy or Greece are not that. They wouldn't exist in this form without trade. Also, self sufficiency doesn't really work, not for very long at least. After a few weeks, you run out of some chemical or some replacement part. The right response to a pandemic can't be to return to a medieval style econ…

Depends on how you define self sufficiency. If Sweden considers olive oil a staple and thinks it can’t be self sufficient because they can’t supply locals with locally grown olive oil, then that’s a wrong definition of self sufficiency.

So what is a valid and useful definition of self sufficiency in your opinion?

I think any definition would lead to massively plummeting living standards in a country the size of Sweden. It's not just about stuff that doesn't exist in a particular country. It's mostly about lost economies of scale.

Re: Olive tree disease across Europe 'could costs billions'

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on how you define self sufficiency. If Sweden considers olive oil a staple and thinks it can’t be self sufficient because they can’t supply locals with locally grown olive oil, then that’s a wrong definition of self sufficiency.

So what is a valid and useful definition of self sufficiency in your opinion? I think any definition would lead to massively plummeting living standards in a country the size of Sweden. It's not just about stuff that doesn't exist in a particular country. It's mostly about lost economies of scale.

What were the Swedes eating before they could ship food from all over the world?

We have hydroponics, automation and the ability of western worlds to pay what food is worth.

Developing countries and poor countries should be able to use their resources for their advancement and not to provide cheap food to richer countries.

If Sweden cannot grow olive oil because it’s an exotic commodity from a foreign land, they must pay dearly for it.

The notion that we buy cheap from nations that have a surfeit of resources and are favourably placed for ag closer to the equator has its origins in colonialism.

Over consumption in richer countries stem from unequal trade terms and results in inequalities.

Just imagine..you can never ever grow or make olive oil in Sweden. How valuable it must be for them? Why isn’t Turkey making bank and stashing Euros like Alladins and inside treasure cave?

Africa’s natural resources and Chile’s minerals ...why are they picking up pennies while the whole world proposers trading while they don’t?

I see the same thing in Ag. Farmers have the most precious non renewable resource ..water and land. You cannot print land, you know? And yet, why are farmers always in debt and killing themselves because they can’t pay back the bank for their quarter million dollar tractors and credit lines?

Something smells fishy, no?

Re: Olive tree disease across Europe 'could costs billions'

#94
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it would be great if you could invest in creating biodiversity more so than accelerating mono-culture agriculture with pesticides. The real problem is that these folks (And all other cash crops) have rows and rows of the same crop and nothing else. That’s not how nature works. Work WITH nature by creating bio-diversity and pests will be eaten by something else, etc. If you haven’t seen it, I recommend watchin…

The article notes that this affects multiple olive varieties as well as almond and cherry. I don't think this is the time for a monoculture soapbox.

My goatsac vibrates many oscillations

Re: Olive tree disease across Europe 'could costs billions'

#95
post #38

To put this in perspective, it has happened before along similar lines in different produce types. For example, almost all of the vineyards in Europe were wiped out in the 19th century [1]. This is why the oldest vineyards in the world are somewhere in South America. (I think Chile?) Today, as we all know, France is still the most important wine producing country. South Africa has 100k hectares of wine; France has 10…

And the effects are still there today: most French wines are grafted onto roots of resistant American varieties as otherwise the more would still kill them today.

This might mean much less olive diversity.

Post reply on HN