I wish I could leave. The tech industry nowadays is no longer about solving real-world problems and making the world a better place, instead it's all about screwing the end user in every single way possible, whether it's ads, stalking and privacy violations, spam ("marketing" as they call it) or just plain fraud where the company is happy to take the money but can't make it right if things don't go to plan and the cu…
Ask HN: Why did you leave the tech industry?
321–330 of 496 posts
Re: Ask HN: Why did you leave the tech industry?
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I was spending more time wrestling with package managers, version conflicts, obtuse configuration files, pointless deadlines, egotistical colleagues, and almost zero time solving interesting problems on products that I care about. That squares with my experience of software development. It's like being a furniture maker but spending 80% of your time fixing your goddamn hammer because it keeps breaking and no better…
It's the same for all kinds of work outside of academia. I studied aerospace engineering and day-to-day it's exceedingly rare to need any math beyond basic trigonometry. 80% of the time it's useless meetings, emails, paperwork; only sometimes it's actually useful or fun. Some people study business for years and end up splitting their days between sitting in meetings and updating Gantt charts. That's just how work is.
Re: Ask HN: Why did you leave the tech industry?
#323Re: Ask HN: Why did you leave the tech industry?
#324I joined an aging software company first, not a shiny dot-com. I learned a great deal here. I was 19 when I started. The place was staffed with amazing engineers and some of the worst management I've ever encountered. I was pretty unsure of my path at this point and was willing to do anything they asked of me. So when I showed a little aptitude for system administration and fixed several glaring issues, they asked me to join that team. My joining made it a team of two. Over the course of the next week management determined that I was a better fit for the job. They asked me if I could do it solo. I wasn't sure but they seemed ok with it. Everyone in the office knew, including me, that the guy I was slated to replace had cancer. At a small company, everyone knew everything. The guy was literally family. Like many there, he had several other family members on staff. They fired him. While he had cancer. He lost his insurance. When I questioned this, I was told: "that sounds like his problem".
I left that job and moved on because I was rather disillusioned. I went looking for a job that was "fun" -- and ended up in the music industry. I immediately found solace for my low point in the form of drugs, booze, etc. I lived like a rock star for a couple of years, and my employers were more than happy to let me. It was the music industry, and it was flush with cash -- just before Napster! These were mind-boggling decisions at every level here, all of them motivated by greed, all of them tainted by cocaine. It was rough. Eventually, the drugs and booze caught up with me. I took some time to dry out before going back.
My thought process at the time was "ok, lets make some fast money and get out of this field", so I took a job on Wall Street. In hindsight, incredibly foolish. My drug problems returned, my work suffered, I moved on.
I spent the next several years doing private consulting work. I made more money than I ever had, but it always felt tainted somehow. The disillusionment of my earlier years was hard to shake. All these years later, I still haven't shaken it.
I've had many jobs at this point. There are several common threads running through them:
- First, profit above all else. The human toll is meaningless. - Second, and highly related to the first, are compromised ethics. I don't think I've ever worked for good people. - Third, incompetence is the rule. I've worked with "senior software engineers" who couldn't use an editor. Who didn't know how to use variables -- and not some weird syntax issue. I'm talking "thousands of files duplicated with hardcoded values where variables should be" - Fourth, generally no consequences for bad actions. Ignore user security? "Not really our problem". Not meeting SLAs because management refused to properly staff/equip your project? End up the scapegoat because "we weren't aware". You SIGNED THE CONTRACT. Didn't you read it?
My most recent job was focused on correcting my personal physical health issues. Spending a long time behind a desk made me sedentary. I took a job doing datacenter operations work: racking, stacking, running cable, etc. Loads of fun, and for the fist time in ages I actually liked my day-to-day coworkers. Our clients were trashy though: spammers mostly, porn sites, and so on. As a customer of a huge datacenter, the business was deemed "essential", when clearly it was not. But that didn't matter to the company! They are more than happy to sacrifice their employees to COVID-19. Gotta protect those profits! I left at the end of March. I've subsequently learned that people have died. Because they show up when they have no other choice. Can't lose those benefits!
So that's my story. Neat, isn't it? It's a fair critique to say I've made bad decisions. I most certainly have, and I gotta own that. But at every step of the way, there's been a corporate vulture ready to pick the meat off my bones. I have so many regrets -- the biggest being my naive optimism where I take people at their word. A huge mistake that I constantly regret.
For these reasons, I plan to leave, or... I have already? But not leave tech. I do enjoy the work. I don't enjoy "the rest". One thing I've learned though, across all the industries I've worked in is this:
The problem isn't "tech". The problem is the culture of the United State of America. A "me first" culture. A culture that promotes races to the bottom at every level. A culture that glorifies ignorance. A culture that is based on lies, near as I can tell. But who can really tell anymore? What is truth these days, other than an anachronistic notion shared by the naive?
So I am leaving the United States if this pandemic ever ends. Because our culture is abhorrent. I won't support it any longer.
Oh, and why do I keep coming to HN? It's like driving past a traffic accident. I can't help but look at the destruction man creates. It reminds me of how NOT to be. How NOT to exist in this world. I hope, with any comment I leave, and I'll be honest I'm all on throwaways like this one, I hope that if I can change one person's mind in this field it will have a positive impact somewhere. Even if it's just one person that decides "hmm, maybe profit above people isn't the best idea" ... well, I'll take it as a win.
Re: Ask HN: Why did you leave the tech industry?
#325Earlier quoted context omitted.
I went to Stanford undergrad and honestly, the Bay Area tech scene (and Seattle from what I've noticed) looks unappealing to me. The culture is a turn off. I'd much rather have a 40 hour a week job somewhere else, where everyone understands it's a job and you can be your own person at home. It's hard to articulate, and I could write much more about it, but it's almost like the identity you have to don to fit in there…
There is a lot of things that could be said here: 1) I switched from being a software engineer to a data scientist in 2010, in part because of the culture. I totally get not enjoying the culture, though I do recognize how much it varies from person to person and company to company, so I try not to stereotype. But on some level, I get it. 2) We're opposites in some way. I've been writing code since I was 8 years old,…
However, science has always been my #1 thing, and programming is my probably my #3. Interesting, but not the only thing I want to do. Working 40 hours a week at it is enough for me. I still love learning new things and getting better at the craft, but when I go home, I have other hobbies.
I'm hacking my treadmill with Arduino for fun. I'm brazing metal. I'm riding my bike more. I'm reading a fiction book that just came out. I just read a book about world development. All of that is a lot more interesting to me than going home and sitting at a different desk doing more programming, you know?
And while I'm not offended by your comments and this is entirely non-personal -- really, I'm just curious as well and enjoy talking to people with different perspectives -- the attitude that if I'm not always programming, I'm "less than" than other programmers seems oppressive to me. I'm still smart, I'm still curious, I'm still good at my job. But there's still the perception that if I am not programming more, I am falling behind.
So the solution for people like me is to pretend to be someone like you, who loves programming above all other things, and it's mildly exhausting. It's great that you love programming so much and I kind of envy you. But not everyone needs to be exactly like you to be a worthwhile contributor. (Again, not personal, I just enjoy putting these thoughts into words.)
Re: Ask HN: Why did you leave the tech industry?
#326Earlier quoted context omitted.
IEEE Code of Ethics: https://www.ieee.org/about/corporate/governance/p7-8.html ACM Code of Ethics: https://www.acm.org/code-of-ethics There are incompetent people in every industry. So what. Hiring is an arcane mystery in every industry where productivity can't be quantified. So what.
Those are nice. Thanks for sharing that! I have never seen anything remotely close to that in a place of corporate employment ever. I have been doing this in the corporate world since 2006, but if you count my time as a security analyst in the military than I could push that date back to 2001. The military does force feed you (memorization verbatim) ethical standards, though, at a huge contrast to the loosey goosey c…
Re: Ask HN: Why did you leave the tech industry?
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
You could always switch to a company that doesn't make its money with ads. For example I work for Snowflake and I don't feel like I'm building stuff to screw the end user at all. I just make our database better. I also worked for Siemens. There too I didn't try to screw any users, I just tried to make trains run cheaper, faster and more reliably.
Making its money with ads doesn't mean anything anymore. There are plenty of companies that have paid products and still do user-hostile things including stalking, spam, dark patterns, etc. I paid full price for a Playstation 4. I still had to opt out of "enhanced data collection" and spend 15 minutes disabling every option on their bullshit attempt at a social network. Even the games themselves had their own telemet…
Re: Ask HN: Why did you leave the tech industry?
#328I left after over 25 years. I love programming and love working with Linux, but the jobs always came down to "help us steal peoples personal information so we can slam them with spam for products the neither want or need." It was unfulfilling. I went back to school and got an MA in history. I teach humanities though I still teach a couple of programming classes. I miss it a little. I would go back in a heartbeat for…
wow, I plan to study history at some point. Is it possible to study part time, do you think?
Re: Ask HN: Why did you leave the tech industry?
#329Re: Ask HN: Why did you leave the tech industry?
#330Earlier quoted context omitted.
IEEE Code of Ethics: https://www.ieee.org/about/corporate/governance/p7-8.html ACM Code of Ethics: https://www.acm.org/code-of-ethics There are incompetent people in every industry. So what. Hiring is an arcane mystery in every industry where productivity can't be quantified. So what.
Hiring is hard even in places where everything is quantified, such as baseball! Only a few teams have consistent success signing good value contracts even with all the statistics available.