Steve Jobs' reality distortion takes its toll on truth • Hacker News Board

Re: Steve Jobs' reality distortion takes its toll on truth

#311

Post by bad_user » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 1:40 PM UTC

Jach wrote: post #289

darkandbrooding wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Apple is a religion." I find the "cult of apple" and "apple is a religion" memes amusing because, including myself, the majority of Apple users that I know are atheists. Personally, I think "spectator sports" makes for more constructive analogies than religion. People develop very strong associations to their favorite rugby/football/etc team, delight in their team's victories, and bemoan their losses. Some people ch…

I wish I could upvote you more. "X is a religion" should only be valid when X categorically resembles a religion--books, worship, in-group perks, rituals, supernatural, the lot. Your sports team analogy is great.

Religion to me is any kind of belief without questioning, without observable proof.

Books, worship, in-group perks, rituals, supernatural; are just side-effects and the scale of it depends on the ability of its leaders to bullshit people.

I'm not an atheist btw - that also requires belief and too much energy. As I'm too lazy to answer the question "does God exist or not?" guess that makes me an agnostic - and truly I don't give a shit.

But then again, I'm an Ubuntu user that also uses Windows from time to time. And Ubuntu Christian Edition is a few clicks away if I ever make a decision :p

Re: Steve Jobs' reality distortion takes its toll on truth

#312

Post by extension » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 2:26 PM UTC

rbarooah wrote: post #297

extension wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he used just the right amount of vitriol to best make his point. He's adding something valuable to the discussion and that's all that really matters to me. It's not tone that leads to Reddit, it's too many posters with too little to say.

What point did he make other than the vitriol itself?

That Apple is getting way too much sympathy for something that anybody else would be crucified for.

Re: Steve Jobs' reality distortion takes its toll on truth

#313

Post by johnyqi » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 2:40 PM UTC

It's not important what is a fact, it's important whether masses will believe him. An they will. Period. Steve Jobs is marketing expert and showman of the century plus he produced few most revolutionary products in the world. Nobody really cares whether he gets his facts right because they are completely irrelevant for majority of people. He does what it takes to sell it and it works. When it comes to stretching the truth I don't think any company out there is clean but we only notice those things with top ones.

Re: Steve Jobs' reality distortion takes its toll on truth

#314

Post by albedoa » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 2:52 PM UTC

dean wrote: post #160

Tycho wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are there really millions of Galaxy Tab users ? Anyway, I don't think it's that 'devious' of a lie considering the iPad 2 will simply replace the iPad line, which sells 1 million per month, and will probably do more with the new device. It's not technically true just yet, but it almost certainly will be in a month's time. It would be different if the iPad 2 was a whole new product line.

It's not technically true just yet, but it almost certainly will be in a month's time. Well, let him say it in a month's time. Until then, it's not true -- technically or otherwise.

By your standard, he shouldn't make a future claim even if the certainty is 100% because it hasn't happened yet. Most of us don't even hold ourselves to that standard, and I wonder if you do.

Re: Steve Jobs' reality distortion takes its toll on truth

#315

Post by fluidcruft » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 3:03 PM UTC

gruseom wrote: post #256

fluidcruft wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allow me to appropriate a quotation from a person who's legacy Apple has had no shame appropriating for marketing: "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." This was plainly an exercise in ridicule by Jobs.

Allow me to appropriate a quotation from a person who's legacy Apple has had no shame appropriating for marketing: "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." While I agree with you that Apple's use of Gandhi in their ads is just about the most shamelessly incongruent marketing ever, Gandhi never said "First they ignore you etc." It comes from a speech made by someone called Ni…

That's very interesting. It's listed in the disputed section of Gandhi's page on wikiquotes:

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mohandas_Karamchand_Gandhi

As a thank you, I offer this personal favorite that I like to bring up whenever someone talks about stealing someone's thunder:

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/steal-ones-thunder.html

Re: Steve Jobs' reality distortion takes its toll on truth

#316

Post by CountSessine » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 3:19 PM UTC

moultano wrote: post #280

CountSessine wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asus has superior build quality to Apple (measured in failures within 3 years; Apple is around 17% and Asus is 15%, as I recall) Where did you get these numbers? It certainly doesn't square with my own, pure anecdotal, experience with Asus and Apple. Is anyone actually publishing these numbers? Are laptop makers required to?

People who offer generic after-market warranties have the stats. http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/SquareTrade_laptop_reliab...

Thanks!

Re: Steve Jobs' reality distortion takes its toll on truth

#317

Post by kill-9 » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 3:24 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #236

rimantas wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to elaborate, how was Google bashed in the demo of Garage Band, iMovie, Smart Cover? Was Google even mentioned?

I chose that wording to parody the comment I was replying to. When you see wording in a reply that is very similar to wording in the original comment, you should switch your language processing unit from the "analyze exact literal meaning" mode to the "read for entertainment value" mode. From a strictly literal standpoint, Jobs made a lot of jabs at the competition for iOS, which is phones and tablets running Android…

Yes, Jobs took a lot of jabs at the competition. Here in America we call that "selling". The purpose of a product announcement is to sell said product. I think the bottom line for the author is that he hates that Jobs has done such an outstanding job of selling Apple products.

Re: Steve Jobs' reality distortion takes its toll on truth

#318

Post by rbarooah » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 3:36 PM UTC

bane wrote: post #310

rbarooah wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#2 depends on your definition of volume, and it's pretty clear that nobody is close to Apple there, so it's hardly even an exaggeration let alone a lie. #3 isn't a fabrication either. For it to be false, you either have to include e-readers, or assume that Samsung sold over 1.6m Tabs, which seems extremely unlikely given the evidence. #1 is the most dishonest looking one, but none of it really justifies the "You Lie!…

#2 Since the iPad 2 wasn't shipping at all, its volume is 0 at the time this was said. That much is inarguable, full stop. Ergo it is a lie. #3 Provide documentation then, don't guess. Since you're obviously an Apple fan (not saying there is anything wrong with that), guessing will only provide numbers and situations that you want -- confirmation bias. For it not to be a lie, Apple must own not 88% of the market, not…

"#2 Since the iPad 2 wasn't shipping at all, its volume is 0 at the time this was said. That much is inarguable, full stop. Ergo it is a lie."

No, he said when it was going to ship. It's a prediction. It's only a lie if he has good reason to believe that the won't ship in volume .

Re: Steve Jobs' reality distortion takes its toll on truth

#319

Post by rbarooah » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 3:41 PM UTC

extension wrote: post #312

rbarooah wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What point did he make other than the vitriol itself?

That Apple is getting way too much sympathy for something that anybody else would be crucified for.

That point can be made, with vitriol, without resorting to attacking other members of HN.

Re: Steve Jobs' reality distortion takes its toll on truth

#320

Post by Silhouette » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 3:52 PM UTC

othermaciej wrote: post #299

Silhouette wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean Apple, Microsoft, Google, RIM et al? Yes, I think it's a pretty fair assessment to say that they are all losing steam. Their basic problem is that smartphones and tablets have gone from being the cool new toys of yesteryear to being mainstream, expensive tools, with just a soupçon of "too clever for your own good". I saw an interesting debate a few weeks ago on HN. Some people saw these generic tools as the…

Your perspective is interesting. But I think it weakens your argument to claim you would short these stocks in theory, but actually won't. The market price is determined by people who are confident enough in their beliefs to act on them. And those people collectively seem to think market-cap-weighted bundle of AAPL, MSFT, GOOG and RIMM is a good bet. If you are not confident enough to act, then that significantly dis…

Think of it as a figure of speech. I don't believe the current path taken by those companies is sustainable if they come up against well-considered competition.

Also, please don't read too much into my not investing in this particular case. For one thing, I'm not in the US, and for me trading US stocks directly and in a tax-efficient way would require jumping through hoops that just aren't worth the hassle.