Totally out of my depth here. I've been following Dr. Chris Martenson's daily covid-19 updates since late January. He is adamant this treatment is only effective in combination with zinc supplements.
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Study: No evidence of efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalized patients
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Re: Study: No evidence of efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalized patients
#12Totally out of my depth here. I've been following Dr. Chris Martenson's daily covid-19 updates since late January. He is adamant this treatment is only effective in combination with zinc supplements.
This one?
https://www.peakprosperity.com/about/
He doesn't seem to have many biomedical or pharmaceutical qualifications for pronouncing on what treatments may or may not work?
Edit: Apparently he has a PhD in neurotoxicty (specifically "Acrylamide neurotoxicity: effect on neuronal growth cones and axonal fast transport") which does bolster his credentials.
Re: Study: No evidence of efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalized patients
#13Totally out of my depth here. I've been following Dr. Chris Martenson's daily covid-19 updates since late January. He is adamant this treatment is only effective in combination with zinc supplements.
Who is Dr. Chris Martenson and which hospital does he work at? He seems to be suffering a name collision with some economics PhD guy who appears on Fox.
Re: Study: No evidence of efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalized patients
#14Point is that the study is done at the wrong stage, too late.
Isn't this at the same stage as the preliminary french trials that made headlines?
Re: Study: No evidence of efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalized patients
#15Personally I'm witholding judgment until the results of the PATCH trial (https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04329923) arrive, as it'll finally give us some decent statistical power, and be a full, double-blind RCT. It also has multiple study arms (health-care worker prophylaxis, home-quarantined early stage, hospitalized later-stage), so if it turns out that HCQ is effective but that by the time patients are hospitalized it's too late, as some are now suggesting, we should finally know with some degree of certainty.
Re: Study: No evidence of efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalized patients
#16Point is that the study is done at the wrong stage, too late.
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Re: Study: No evidence of efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalized patients
#17but think of the shareholders
Re: Study: No evidence of efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalized patients
#18It was observed that between 7% and 28% of hospitalized have acute myocardial injury [1-4]. When one looks at Epocrates (database for drugs which is why I'm not linking anything here) the severe adverse reactions of hydroxycholoroquine include QT prolongation, cardiomyopathy, and torsade de pointes. Just to define some things here, QT prolongation is the time from your Q wave to your T wave, or the start of an electrical depolarization on your cardiac ventricles to repolarizations. QT elongation usually leads to cardiac arrest. Torsade de pointes is a syndrome where your cardiac ventricles beat so quickly that your heart paradoxically cannot fill up with blood potentially, and usually, leading to sudden cardiac death.
Giving someone who has had essentially a heart attack (by definition COVID patients have elevated troponin which is the marker we use to assess if one has had a heart attack) is probably a bad idea so my question is: why would we celebrate a drug that has massive cardiac adverse effects as a side effect? Don't get me wrong I understand that there are drugs that are even worse. Cyclosporine is the first line immunosuppresant for kidney transplant. Do you know what one of the most common adverse effects of cyclosporine is? Kidney failure. But we don't know what is causing the kidney failure in a kidney transplant (rejection vs adverse effect) so we have to biopsy. Kidney biopsy is a very invasive procedure, FYI. My point is, maybe waiting for double blind placebo research here is the best case. Also, I made this exact same point on here a month ago and people told that they would take my dose if it came to that and at this point I will say go ahead.
[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32169400
[2] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2004500 [3] https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.120.0... [4] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/...
Re: Study: No evidence of efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalized patients
#19but think of the shareholders
It costs something like $0.50 cents a pill.
Re: Study: No evidence of efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalized patients
#20Point is that the study is done at the wrong stage, too late.
You may be right, but isn't acting like we all knew this is moving the goalpost?