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Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

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Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#191

Post by tomhoward »

minikites wrote: post #189
tomhoward wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of concern-trolling on threads like this gets really tiresome. Anyone in such a role where they will be fitting ventilators to people (i.e., highly educated, experienced and employed in a critical care role) will understand that this is outside of standard practice and that extra caution will need to be taken and considerations made for the different functionality and behaviour of the machine. Can't we just…

This post is a perfect distillation of why there should be more history and other humanities subjects in traditionally STEM educations. >Can't we just appreciate the spirit of inventiveness in a crisis, without having to spoil it by fretting about issues that any grown adult working with this stuff will be fully capable of considering? Can't we just appreciate the inventiveness of using radium to light up watch dials…

Please don't make patronising assumptions: my education and topics of interest are far more focused on humanities than STEM.

The examples you cite are not at all apt comparisons, as the risks and mitigation techniques are well known to the highly experienced adults using the equipment, as has been reported elsewhere.

This is a crisis like no other and it is bringing out incredible inventiveness and creativity in the determination to save lives.

That's what should be celebrated.

Nobody is saying due caution should be disregarded.

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#192

Post by IdoRA »

pnathan wrote: post #177
IdoRA wrote: post #36

There is a reasonable chance that this will not be as useful as the team hopes: 1) They are increasing maximum pressure and pressure rate changes beyond the built-in design parameters. If these new parameters are outside what the engineering requirements document spec, these changes are a problem in seeking EUA. 2) In regulatory affairs, authorized , cleared , and approved have very specific (and enforceable) meaning…

This is possibly the most irresponsible project I've ever seen. There appears to be a deep lack of regulatory experience, along with a deep lack of QC, and it's presented as a jailbreaking , i.e., what is done to your phone. Some kinds of regulations are written in blood, or, in this case, bloody sputum.

I mean, there’s still time for George Hotz to enter the ring and win that title.

A lament, I wish it were possible to convince tech people that they are not the only clever people in the world: regulatory bodies and medtech and pharma companies are packed with equally clever people, who are quite capable of moving fast but without breaking things, that have an unmatched advantage in having domain experience (part of which is a healthy respect/fear of the unknown in medicine, like you say, regulations are written in blood). It would be a lot more productive to support those people than to do these hackathon projects.

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#193

Post by derrick_jensen »

tomhoward wrote: post #187
derrick_jensen wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of those have fairly obvious consequences. I can definitely see people using this and not recognizing it can put other people in harms way.

This kind of concern-trolling on threads like this gets really tiresome. Anyone in such a role where they will be fitting ventilators to people (i.e., highly educated, experienced and employed in a critical care role) will understand that this is outside of standard practice and that extra caution will need to be taken and considerations made for the different functionality and behaviour of the machine. Can't we just…

I definitely do. One of the main differences is this specifically is not mass-marketed, and I agree that anybody would would have the capability of doing this should already have the knowledge to not fuck it up. I'm just saying its a false equivalency between the two

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#194

Post by Zod666 »

scrozier wrote: post #176
prostheticvamp wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hahahahah. Oh man. The vast majority of patients take months or longer to get acclimated to the machine. Most will say they feel /worse/, because the machine gets in the way of their sleep at first. I look forward to hearing more medical pearls from the web design community.

Or how about from people who have actually used them? I put getting a study for years because the whole thing seems such a massive scam. Shame on me: I really needed a bipap, and now I feel so much better. But I could have figured this out by trying one for a week, as others have suggested. It blows air into my nose, for heaven’s sake. How many years of med school does it take to learn about that? Also: wore it 8 hou…

You know CPAP has 50% compliance right? A huge amount of patients never get used to it. And even of those that stick to it, they struggle through the night with it. They define successful CPAP treatment as 4 hours or more a night, when 4 hours is obviously insufficient.

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#195

Post by [deleted] »

derrick_jensen wrote: post #193
tomhoward wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of concern-trolling on threads like this gets really tiresome. Anyone in such a role where they will be fitting ventilators to people (i.e., highly educated, experienced and employed in a critical care role) will understand that this is outside of standard practice and that extra caution will need to be taken and considerations made for the different functionality and behaviour of the machine. Can't we just…

I definitely do. One of the main differences is this specifically is not mass-marketed, and I agree that anybody would would have the capability of doing this should already have the knowledge to not fuck it up. I'm just saying its a false equivalency between the two

[deleted]

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#196

Post by crad »

patmorgan23 wrote: post #68
minikites wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's okay to show someone how to make something extremely hazardous as long as you include a flimsy nonspecific disclaimer?

Actually yes(not that this is particularly dangerous) . It happens litteraly all the time. Ever seen all those "don't try this at home" disclaimers? Also someone published a book called "the anarchist cook book" on how to make rudimentary explosives and manufacture illicit substances such as LSD. You can find a pdf of it with a quick google search.

I sure enjoyed my copy of the Anarchist Cookbook as a teen. :)

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#197

Post by dmead »

Jenda_ wrote: post #171
dmead wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don't know what you mean by "ST" programmer, but i'm a dev and i have an aircurve 10. do you need something?

I think it means ST-Link-compatible programmer, a device used to flash/debug ST chips. You can see a big STM32 MCU on one of the FCC ID photos. The protocol can be bitbanged over GPIO, so for example if you own a Raspberry Pi (or anything similar), all you need to do is to install openocd.

ah, well if OP wants me to get one and do something with it and my bi-pap i'm happy to help.

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#198

Post by didntknowyou »

dontparticipate wrote: post #6

Messing with vents if you don't know what you're doing sounds like a sure fire way to kill yourself.

yea not you're not willing "hacked" ventilator on yourselves then don't expect someone's grandparents to use it.

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#199

Post by fwip »

jdjrirkfkfk wrote: post #67
fwip wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CPAP machines are usually used when you're asleep, right? Since sleep apnea can sometimes be fatal, it seems like screwing up your CPAP machine could conceivably lead to your death.

Note: all of my messing around was just changing settings. No hardware/firmware hacking, so technically the machine is just as fine as before. And I've bought the machine specifically for coronavirus, since my country health system is quite poor, I don't use it during the night.

Good, I'm glad you're being safe. :)

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#200

Post by cycologist »

wormyrocks wrote: post #56

Hi, I worked on this project and have a couple comments to address the issues people are raising. - There are established medical protocols to treat COVID-19 patients with BiPAP machines, including the addition of a viral filter to mitigate aerosolizing the virus. People are using these protocols now and we link to them from the site. - There are two separate firmware hacks presented. The first one modifies ~20 bytes…

The hack only works when using the exact firmware it was made for (obviously, but still unfortunately).

I have an Airsense 10 Autoset for Her (different simpler menus) and was not successful making the extra menus appear.

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