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L.A. Times to Furlough Workers as Ad Revenue ‘Nearly Eliminated’

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Re: L.A. Times to Furlough Workers as Ad Revenue ‘Nearly Eliminated’

#331
post #25

This is an interesting time for ads since people can’t buy most of the things.

And also not a lot of companies want to be associated with Covid-19 content.

Quite the opposite. The ads I still see often advertise how these companies can help during Covid 19. The only companies making money at the moment are those that help people work from home or manage their life and business despite the virus. If done right, that can be a powerful message.

And I don't think many companies are concerned appearing next to a Covid article, they're ubiquitous anyway. They just need to save money and online marketing can be cut within minutes.

Re: L.A. Times to Furlough Workers as Ad Revenue ‘Nearly Eliminated’

#332
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the joke!

It's not funny, it's just tired and repetitious, and HN discourages joking around anyway because it leads to low quality conversations and contests over who can be funnier instead of who can contribute the most meaningfully to a conversation.

If you think a comment is inappropriate, flag it. Don't complain about it -- the guidelines ask you not to. Just flag it.

I found that guideline when looking for the 'discourage joking' guideline.

I never found the joking one, though. I don't think that it exists.

I sort of get what you mean that it's discouraged, but I don't think it's something as broad as 'joking', more like "Jokes require substance and relatability to the topic, class, and cleverness".

HN has quite a few funny people.

Re: L.A. Times to Furlough Workers as Ad Revenue ‘Nearly Eliminated’

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct that I have an emotional reaction to death, but I was not intending to spew a bunch of hyperbole. Society isn’t a numbers game, it’s a shared set of values, and I find it appalling that we seem to be favoring the economy over human life. We have enough resources to take care of both, but chose to bail out corporations instead of people.

> we seem to be favoring the economy over human life I really don't agree with this meme at all and the evidence doesn't support it whatsoever. The people that are hurt most by the shutdown are lower class service workers, not Wall Street stockbrokers. As I just mentioned, everyday people are hurting far more from the lockdown than from the virus. If you really cared about the average person, you'd want to get societ…

The problem is that as the lock downs work, it's easy to lose sight of what could have been, they stop it getting out of control and it still looks bad as there was the initial clump of infections, but the abstract hundreds per day that are dying are still fairly remote for most of us as only 1%-2% of many of our populations got infected. One can still throw around figures of "it's less death than this" or "the lock down is causing X amount of economic + societal misery".

The scientific consensus seems to be that if the disease had just been left to run it's course, even with people being moderately careful given how infectious it is, it would have caused huge death figures. Perhaps that might be proved wrong when we see some countries that simply socially distanced instead of locking down, but was it ever worth the risk?

All these "well, it's bad, but look at the economic damage" have to be weighed against what could have been, not what is. And we just can't imagine this, we can say it, but how many of us can imagine 10,000s dead per day?

Your Aunt dead, a colleague dead and your best-friend's Dad dead, your Butcher's Grandmother dead, your barista's sister dead, a teacher at your primary school dead, your football team's goalie dead. And more, and more. Of the few hundred people you know you would have known several people who would have died, or the thousand or so you are a 2nd connection to you would have heard of many deaths.

On top of that all, New York and the UK only really have Italy and Spain to look at as any sort of predictor. They now have to watch just two countries to see what happens when they start easing the restrictions, and due to the massive lag between infection and hospitalisation/death and insufficient testing capacity, it's all still guess work.

Lift it a week or two too early, and you might have to go into another lock down in a few months time.

Re: L.A. Times to Furlough Workers as Ad Revenue ‘Nearly Eliminated’

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My fear is that 2-3 months of lockdown isn't a cure, it turns into on-and-off lockdown, herd immunity is never established because immunity wears off in 2 years, and a vaccine is 2-5 years out. Ignoring the economics, preserving life takes on new meaning if you count a every locked down day as taking away an hour of life from someone. Take the Bay Area. At 7.7M people, every day, there are 11.7 lifespans wasted by lo…

> My fear is that 2-3 months of lockdown isn't a cure, it turns into on-and-off lockdown, herd immunity is never established because immunity wears off in 2 years, and a vaccine is 2-5 years out. I wonder if any models take into account the availability of drugs. I wonder because (perhaps because I studied pharmacology back in the days) while not effective as a vaccine, proper clinical management of this disease with…

Are there specific drugs you think would be helpful in treating COVID?

Re: L.A. Times to Furlough Workers as Ad Revenue ‘Nearly Eliminated’

#335
post #36
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also not a lot of companies want to be associated with Covid-19 content.

Yeah, the Guardian and some of the other British papers have been complaining about how advertisers are refusing to run ads on Covid-19 related articles and how terrible it is that they're not funding journalism: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/apr/01/newspapers-to-...

Not sure if that isn't just an easy way for companies to save money. Not all companies want to go around telling others they're struggling. Cutting ad budgets online or with newspapers due to Covid can be an easy way to cut expenses without getting public attention.

Re: L.A. Times to Furlough Workers as Ad Revenue ‘Nearly Eliminated’

#336

The LA Times's investigation into Purdue Pharma in 2016 revealed internal Purdue documents demonstrating the company's culpability in fueling the opioid crisis. > The documents provide a detailed picture of the development and marketing of OxyContin, how Purdue executives responded to complaints that its effects wear off early, and their fears about the financial impact of any departure from 12-hour dosing. I don't h…

At the end of the day, if a doctor is prescribing medication against clinical guidelines, surely the doctor is at fault? If a pharma warehouse is burgled then it's on the burglars. Am I missing something regarding this case? Did they mislead doctors? Edit: Downvotes to -4 with no engagement for asking a question. This place has gone downhill rapidly

> At the end of the day, if a doctor is prescribing medication against clinical guidelines, surely the doctor is at fault?

Even if you assume that's the case, there's no reason a doctor being at fault would mean nobody else can be at fault.

Re: L.A. Times to Furlough Workers as Ad Revenue ‘Nearly Eliminated’

#337
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the end no one will know if it was worth it since no country went in the other direction and just lived with it. The UK tried for a bit but then reacted harshly as the situation worsened. Maybe not doing anything would've resulted in a few months of medical chaos and not much more, maybe it would've destroyed whole societies. But the polls I'm aware of show that the majority of people is supportive of measures nea…

Sweden is. Much of Africa will have little choice but to muddle through. We'll likely get a good idea of what the "no or low response" route looks like.

You're right, but I'd classify Sweden as medium response. They still have measures in place, just not as harsh.

With poorer countries (which applies to most of Africa), I guess it'll take several months or years until we know what the excess death rate was. Esp. in rural communities, that data probably often won't be reported as a Covid death. Even Northern Italy had an excess death rate 2x as high as the reported deaths and they had all the attention.

Re: L.A. Times to Furlough Workers as Ad Revenue ‘Nearly Eliminated’

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> other countries haven't locked down hard and aren't seeing a big spread Let’s be precise. Some other countries haven’t locked down hard and aren’t seeing a big spread yet . You mentioned Sweden. Here was Time a few days ago: > A head doctor at a major hospital in Sweden says the current approach will “probably end in a historical massacre.” He says healthcare workers at his hospital who have tested positive for the…

On a per capita basis sweden isn't really more worse off than many other countries that have shutdown. It's about middle of the pack. Personal responsibility lets us have our cake and eat it too. http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/

I hope you're not looking at case numbers, because Sweden is so far behind on testing compared to most of europe.

Look at the rate of growth for deaths per day (filtering out weekends because obviously swedes refuse to die on weekends)

Most places are seeing a plateau in number of daily deaths while Sweden is still growing exponentially

Re: L.A. Times to Furlough Workers as Ad Revenue ‘Nearly Eliminated’

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’ve had more documented covid-19 deaths in ~6 weeks than we usually have murders in an entire year and it hasn’t even peaked yet. We have no clue how many cases there even are because we’ve utterly failed to do mass testing. Serious question: do you have any family, friends, or even acquaintances that you would prefer not to have 3-6 weeks of terror and complete misery with a non-trivial chance of permanent disabil…

Do you understand that millions of people are now out of work and won't be able to support their families, businesses are collapsing, calls to suicide lines are up massively, and society is general is not functioning? This is a complex issue. Using hyperbolic emotional appeals to drown out discussion is not the right move.

> Using hyperbolic emotional appeals to drown out discussion is not the right move.

But isn't that what you just did here?

> Do you understand that millions of people are now out of work and won't be able to support their families, businesses are collapsing, calls to suicide lines are up massively, and society is general is not functioning?

So let's do some math instead.

The last stats I had were that 5% of people who catch it will die without a ventilator, 0.5% will die with it. So suppose we go "fast burn" to try to get "herd immunity" as quickly as possible, forget about overwhelming the health care system. 80% of your friends, family, acquaintances, and coworkers will catch it, and 5% of those will die.

I reckon most people have about 500-1000 people they feel connected to. So think about your network: which 20-40 people do you want to die so that the rest can go back to work?

Re: L.A. Times to Furlough Workers as Ad Revenue ‘Nearly Eliminated’

#340
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the end no one will know if it was worth it since no country went in the other direction and just lived with it. The UK tried for a bit but then reacted harshly as the situation worsened. Maybe not doing anything would've resulted in a few months of medical chaos and not much more, maybe it would've destroyed whole societies. But the polls I'm aware of show that the majority of people is supportive of measures nea…

Sorry, I don't recall being democratically asked whether shutting down everything indefinitely was something I agreed with before it happened. Of course people will agree that it's a good idea when the media is blaring "PANDEMIC" at them 24/7.

You weren't. But I'm sure pretty much all politicians got quick polls before enacting measures. That measures that strictly were enacted was only because politicians knew there wouldn't be large scale protests or riots.

Now I don't want to speculate why people are in favor. Maybe because they believe experts but that usually doesn't work well.. I guess public opinion during the outbreak is also going to be a heavily researched area for years to come.

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