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Amazon fires two UX designers critical of warehouse working conditions

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Re: Amazon fires two UX designers critical of warehouse working conditions

#371

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I think part of the issue is that politics appears to have become something akin to a national sport, where we elect to support team A or team B. Because it is similar to a sport, our hopes and dreams, our entire being is drawn into this particular identity. That is why if team A supports position C ( that happened to be supported by team B previously ) it becomes a valid position. I do not know how to make people di…

Sports and politics can both give people an easy feeling of belonging to something greater than themselves. Both can give you addictive neur-ochemical rushes while interweaving the experience of victory and defeat with tribal identification and othering. I used to have a condescending attitude towards people who took sports 'way too seriously', but now I wonder if it is a net gain for society to give people a compara…

I mean, in lots of Europe, football matches are one of the only places where flag-waving nationalism isn't a social faux pas. It's obviously a harmless outlet for human tribalistic tendencies and thirst for battle. But Europe has gotten ravaged in living history - you can talk to plenty of Brits today who will tell you stories about taking shelter in the subways while the Nazis bombed London. Americans don't really have a living memory of going to war with our neighbors and having our homeland pummeled - wars are a thing waged in faraway lands with people from strange and different cultures, so nationalism is allowed to flourish without any acknowledgement of its toxicity to humanity as a whole.

Tribalism in America goes deep, and you're right: rooting for a sports team is fairly harmless, and rooting for a political party is probably harmful, but I'd argue it's not nearly as harmful as as rooting blindly for an ideology. If you want your party to succeed, you should be engaged in your local politics, talk to people from the other side, listen honestly to their concerns, be willing to change your own opinion on specific policies, and push for those sensible policy changes to be adopted as part of your local party's platform. That's how you win people over, that's how you win elections, and how you enact real change that affects people's lives. Anything else is just yelling into your echo chamber, or getting into bar fights with the guys wearing the "wrong" jerseys.

Ideologies form the axes of socioeconomic space, they're not an ideal point, and the push toward an "us versus them" mentality in politics is embarrassing. It's a quirk that's arisen out of new media, an easily exploitable bug, and the sooner people see through the bullshit and we outgrow this, the better.

Re: Amazon fires two UX designers critical of warehouse working conditions

#372

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I feel like its a myth... no one i know works in a place where anyone can walk into the CEOs office, be brutally honest and not have some time of blowback in one way or another(or really any level). All those who tried have not faired well.

I was booted out of my first employer within 90 days of stepping into the company's "open-door CEO" office to bring up the subject of scheduling time with my boss (directly reporting to the CEO) to discuss a job promotion. My boss was the first one who brought it up and I took the initiative. Even typing this right now I feel dumb. But I had no idea how sensitive people are with retaining their status in an artificia…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_in_the_workplace

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machiavellianism_in_the_workpl...

Re: Amazon fires two UX designers critical of warehouse working conditions

#373

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This large, friendly notice from the government spells it out explicitly: https://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/compliance/EO_Posters/Employee... > Under the NLRA, it is illegal for your employer to: > Fire, demote, or transfer you, or reduce your hours or change your shift, or otherwise take adverse action against you, or threaten to take any of these actions, because you join or support a union, or because you engage in co…

Right, and that poster specifically talks about your working conditions. It says nothing about a protected right to talk about other people's working conditions.

The phrase "mutual aid" is right there. As is "organizing". These things imply an ability to cooperate with coworkers. These laws were made to explicitly protect collective bargaining, which absolutely implies other people.

Re: Amazon fires two UX designers critical of warehouse working conditions

#374

> “We support every employee’s right to criticize their employer’s working conditions, but that does not come with blanket immunity against any and all internal policies,” Herdener said. > Amazon’s external communications policy prohibits employees from commenting publicly on its business without corporate justification and approval from executives. Herdener previously said the policy did not allow employees to “publ…

That quote is straight up incorrect. Amazon doesn't restrict, and actually encourages employees to talk about their work conditions, as long as said employee makes sure to say "these opinions are my own and do not represent Amazon's official stance" and that anything you are saying is actually true. You certainly do not need "corporate justification and approval from executives". I am curious where Reuters pulled tha…

Sources please!

Re: Amazon fires two UX designers critical of warehouse working conditions

#375
post #262
post #213

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With a good CEO, your career might actually get a bump if you give them honest and helpful feedback.

If the company is larger than 500 people, the CEO doesn't have the bandwidth for this type of feedback. He'll either figure out that his reports (CTO or lower) are not doing their jobs, or that you're a troublemaker. Odds are he has hired the CTO and had significant influence on hiring those below the CTO. So he's invested in that CTO. You, you're some rando coming up talking about stuff that makes you look incompete…

True, you shouldn't expect the CEO of a large company to listen to the FNG or scrub who bypasses the chain of command. But a good CEO will recognize and reward those who bring them valuable input through the proper channels.

Re: Amazon fires two UX designers critical of warehouse working conditions

#376

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Forget about working there. Does it stop you from buying their products?

This. It doesn't really matter what Amazon does (see this comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22871216 ), the woke crowd has already made up their mind about the company and will criticize them regardless. The only thing that is going to satisfy the woke crowd is Amazon's failure. Their best strategy is to focus on being the most customer centric company so that people like myself and millions upon millions…

For some reason I feel that I should be honest about downvoting your comment just because of the insane number of sentences mentioning 'woke' and . I just tend to zone out when commenters bore the shit out of me mentioning some kind of 'woke' adversary. It should be beneath all of us.

Re: Amazon fires two UX designers critical of warehouse working conditions

#377
post #368

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Nope. I worked at a different company. This isn't even about people at the top. When everyone is on the same team and owns equity in that collective endeavor, someone that goes outside to publicly bad mouth the team is hurting everyone on their team. That's some Grade-A anti-social behavior. I'm an IC and far from the top, but I never want to work with such people who use righteous indignation to justify their anti-s…

Your post can be summed up with the general truism: "don't bite the hand that feeds you". "These two people are two nobodies who took it upon themselves to be the arbiters of judgement and instead of checking with their colleagues to see if their views were collectively aligned with the consensus of their colleagues." The article stated a thousand Amazon employees accepted the event invite before it was deleted by ma…

you're replying to what I've marked as a right-wing brazilian. In my experience these types glorify even the Trumpian America and don't have any awareness of their local issues because they're 'middle class' and never have to interact with any brazilians beneath them, as all those other brazilians just never put in the effort.

I'd love to be proven wrong though.

FWIW: my experience with Brazilian Google-employees is that their lives are shockingly insulated from the rest of the country. home -> car -> guarded parking -> -> home. we admittedly privileged expats got to experience more than them even, at times!

Re: Amazon fires two UX designers critical of warehouse working conditions

#378

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I have a hard time following your comment and logic. Can you expand in plain words what you mean, preferably with an example and concrete details? Specifically: > It's much easier to point out that taking a certain set of actions will lead to a certain set of outcomes This statement is too vague. What specific actions and what specific outcomes? > since those are abstract concepts that require critical thinking and m…

In the parent comment I'm referring to the commenter states that if you talk negatively about your employers employment practices (perform action X) you should expect to be fired (receive outcome Y). I get irritated by this kind of comment because by being a description of a chain of events with no verdict as to whether outcome Y is fair or proportional to action X, it is an absolution of responsibility for the obser…

excellent observation and explication

Re: Amazon fires two UX designers critical of warehouse working conditions

#379
post #355

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“meaningful negotiation” doesn’t mean anything to me. Either men with guns coerce the market participant or they don’t. Freemen should rationally allocate free time, family time and work time. A man isn’t guaranteed everything he wants, only the opportunity to rationally pursue his interests.

They should also unionize, so that they have proper leverage for the negotiation

Does the union have special privileges granted by the state, or is it simply a group freely contracted between laborers?

Re: Amazon fires two UX designers critical of warehouse working conditions

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There are no constitutionally protected rights to disparage, or even just talk negatively about, anyone you want. Yes, you certainly do have that right so long as what you say is true. But lets assume your misunderstanding of the law were true, or these statements were in violation of some otherwise unknown confidential settlement agreement...who is to say the employee statements were disparaging? Amazon? No whether…

Feel free to point out anywhere the constitution says so. The constitution and/or bill of rights have nothing to do with this situation, as no constitutional rights were broken whatsoever. >or these statements were in violation of some otherwise unknown confidential settlement agreement I really have no idea what you're talking about here. What confidential settlement agreement? >who is to say the employee statements…

You don't seem to understand 1st Amendment Law and protections; contract law; nor employment law.

>This is an employment arrangement which can unilaterally be ended at any time by either party, and Amazon has chosen to do so.

Yes, at will employment gives the parties the right to terminate the employment...but, Amazon can not terminate an employee for any reason. For example Amazon can't fire a employee for their race, or religion, or sexual preference. You may want to Google "workplace retaliation cases", because Amazon can not retaliate by firing an employee for reporting workplace safety concerns.

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