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Ring 0 of fire: Does Riot Games’ new anti-cheat measure go too far?

arstechnica.com

11–20 of 26 posts

Re: Ring 0 of fire: Does Riot Games’ new anti-cheat measure go too far?

#11

Some cheats are using PCIe FPGA boards to get access to game memory totally outside of the OS. The boards are controlled from a separate computer.

Could you please stop creating accounts for every few comments you post? We ban accounts that do that. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

You needn't use your real name, of course, but for HN to be a community, users need some identity for others to relate to. Otherwise we may as well have no usernames and no community, and that would be a different kind of forum. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

Re: Ring 0 of fire: Does Riot Games’ new anti-cheat measure go too far?

#12
> "This isn’t giving us any surveillance capability we didn’t already have," Riot noted in its blog post (using language that isn't exactly comforting on its own). "If we cared about grandma’s secret recipe for the perfect Christmas casserole, we’d find no issue in obtaining it strictly from user-mode and then selling it to The Food Network."

So not only are they injecting kernel level code and running it from boot, but they're being flippant about the level of control this gives them and downplaying the security implications here.

This gives me serious pause, because I have work on my gaming machine too, some of which is confidential client information, and confidential personal information as well. It's getting to the stage that games, a distraction, can't be trusted to be on the same machine as anything else.

Re: Ring 0 of fire: Does Riot Games’ new anti-cheat measure go too far?

#15
post #12

> "This isn’t giving us any surveillance capability we didn’t already have," Riot noted in its blog post (using language that isn't exactly comforting on its own). "If we cared about grandma’s secret recipe for the perfect Christmas casserole, we’d find no issue in obtaining it strictly from user-mode and then selling it to The Food Network." So not only are they injecting kernel level code and running it from boot,…

> It's getting to the stage that games, a distraction, can't be trusted to be on the same machine as anything else.

The iOS/macOS sandbox, for games purchased through the App Store/Apple Arcade, provides some degree of reassurance.

Re: Ring 0 of fire: Does Riot Games’ new anti-cheat measure go too far?

#16
I have a problem with it, even ignoring the Chinese influence or any direct spyware/vulnerability issues.

If it's seen as a good idea then soon everyone will want to do it and our computers will suddenly be back in the hellscape of 00's browsers. I don't want to know what my computer will be doing when 10 companies' kits are actively competing with each other, the OS, anti-virus etc.

Re: Ring 0 of fire: Does Riot Games’ new anti-cheat measure go too far?

#17
post #12

> "This isn’t giving us any surveillance capability we didn’t already have," Riot noted in its blog post (using language that isn't exactly comforting on its own). "If we cared about grandma’s secret recipe for the perfect Christmas casserole, we’d find no issue in obtaining it strictly from user-mode and then selling it to The Food Network." So not only are they injecting kernel level code and running it from boot,…

> It's getting to the stage that games, a distraction, can't be trusted to be on the same machine as anything else. The iOS/macOS sandbox, for games purchased through the App Store/Apple Arcade, provides some degree of reassurance.

Unfortunately the continuing spat between Apple and Nvidia, and the lack of games available, make the Mac a path less travelled for gamers.

Which is a shame, I'd love to use it for more, but it's poorly supported.

Re: Ring 0 of fire: Does Riot Games’ new anti-cheat measure go too far?

#18
For those who don't know, Riot Games recently released a closed beta of Valorant, their new game with this anti-cheat. Valorant is a direct competitor to Valve's CS:GO, borrowing it's core loop and even some of its weapons.

It's interesting to compare the two approaches to anti-cheat that the two companies are taking here:

* Valve use VAC, an unobstrusive memory scanner in user-space with an emphasis on never having false positives.

* Valve use machine learning on game replays to detect obvious aim-bots and spin-bots

* Valve enlists the community via the "Overwatch" program to review game recordings and spot cheaters.

* Valve supports CS:GO on Linux.

* Leveraging your Steam history, Valve creates a "Trust Factor" score for every player and keeps trusted players together.

* Riot uses ring-0 scanners.

* Riot will not allow you to run Valorant in a VM.

* Riot will ban specific hardware if a cheat is detected. Beware when buying 2nd hand motherboards!

* Riot does not allow you to host your own Valorant servers (this makes hack-vs-hack servers, which some people enjoy, impossible)

I think that in the long run Valve's approach, particularly with Trust Factor, will be proven the better of the two.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObhK8lUfIlc

Re: Ring 0 of fire: Does Riot Games’ new anti-cheat measure go too far?

#19
The wonderful world of games running on your PC.

Recently I tried to get Dirt Rally 2.0 to run on my Linux gaming machine. Apparently, according to ProtonDB [0], the solution to get it to work is installing a fully trusted root-certificate from Codemasters on your system (not only in the Wine/Proton environment) [1].

In case you don't know, this means Codemasters can now man-in-the-middle every https connection from your computer. This is insane imho.

I tried to comment on that thread but they need full system information before you can post anything on ProtonDB.

[0]: https://www.protondb.com/app/690790

[1]: https://gist.github.com/PeXArtZ/020931f0182cafe84c623b5584da...

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