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Python programming is drowning in red tape

stefanoborini.com

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Re: Python programming is drowning in red tape

#101

Post by raverbashing »

BalinKing wrote: post #53
raverbashing wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we are starting to look like a heavily templatized cpp code Which was my main concern when type-hints were added Give a hand to the strong-typed people and they will take the whole arm. They will take Python as "now it's like Java" and will push it all the way through.

strong types != ugly syntax (viz. Haskell)

Agreed but that's not necessarily the issue here

(Though yeah templates in C++ turn the ugliness to 11)

Not to mention Python is "strongly-typed". But it doesn't require variables to have a pre-determined type and doesn't do compile time type checks by itself.

Re: Python programming is drowning in red tape

#102

Post by chewxy »

nine_k wrote: post #43
jordic wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't mix things, guy! - asyncio it's one thing: From my point of view it's amazing... makes python be able to compete with nodejs or go.. (not so hard, if you work also on the browser) - mypy: that's another story, but it's also optional, use it if you want... (my opinion, like in typescript, if I want types I will do it with go or rust)

Good luck finding a pandas or scipy implementation for go or rust :-/

Gonum and Gorgonia

Re: Python programming is drowning in red tape

#103

Post by raverbashing »

rbanffy wrote: post #96
raverbashing wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes My personal preference regarding line lengths: 80 chars are not enough. And even pep8 says that "foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" So try being under 80 chars but sometimes you can't. Also don't break a line that's like 85 chars if it will just make it more ugly I'm glad Prospector by default doesn't enforce "the cult of 80 chars" dogma

God made the VT52 with 80 columns for a reason. ;-) Now, seriously, that's a matter of taste. I like 80 because it allows me to have two files open side by side on my laptop with a readable font size. As we grow older, what's "readable" changes.

I keep hearing these arguments but to me they sound like a romantic attachment to the past. There's no intrinsic quality in using 80 columns besides historical legacy. But hey we can also keep using the size of body parts as measurement units as well, or we can evolve. :)

The 2 column use case is useful, but to be honest, rare. I just tested it here and I still need a big monitor and a "medium" font size for 2x80 to work (not too bad on the vision side, but not too great neither). But it is easy for that point to become moot ;)

Re: Python programming is drowning in red tape

#104

Post by zmmmmm »

j88439h84 wrote: post #20

All the "wait no" alternative tool suggestions are silly. There's a best tool. For packaging a Python project, that tool is Poetry. Pipenv, virtualenv, setup.py, venv, setup.cfg, are all outmoded.

How long will that last for though? If I invest time to learn it and set it up and apply it to all my projects is it going to all be wasted because someone will have a new idea 6 months from now because of clear and obvious problems with poetry?

There's only so many iterations you can have through the cycle before "no this is the last one!" isn't plausible any more.

Re: Python programming is drowning in red tape

#105

Post by kingrolo »

I use black by default across all our projects now and I'm all for it, but it does seem kind of ironic that whilst the main selling point of black is to take away these kind of code style discussions there seem to have been way more of them since black came to popularity :)

I do expect it'll just be fine once everyone's got used to it. Maybe its a consequence of a tool like this coming into existence on a language with such a long history already.

Re: Python programming is drowning in red tape

#106

Post by z3t4 »

Instead of re-formatting your code, have the editor automatically reformat visually for those that want such and such formatting. Kinda like editors that handle word wrap, they word wrap the lines without inserting new-lines in the source.

Re: Python programming is drowning in red tape

#107

Post by tree3 »

When I saw "red tape" and "PEP 8", I thought this article was going in a different direction...

But nope, the writer is instead vehemently defending PEP 8, which is a arbitrary standard that no one is required to follow. Who cares if does , PEP 8 isn't the word of God.

Re: Python programming is drowning in red tape

#108

Post by therealmojado »

mjburgess wrote: post #95
therealmojado wrote: post #93

> a CODE_OF_CONDUCT, because we assume preemptively that you are a racist homophobic asshole, and we have to cover our bases. Really? What about laws? Do you think they exist because it is assumed that everybody is a rapist and a burglar?

Laws are enforced and mostly provide an institutional system to deal with redress (for victims) and safety (for society). ie., the judiciary, legislature and police force are the mechanism of the law and why it exists . It's not an activity in parliaments declaring their moral beliefs. "Codes of Conduct" in this vein are just virtue signalling. They appease the martyr-type looking to publicly shame a community for fr…

What are you smoking?

Codes of conduct are enforced too. You can get kicked out of a conference or community if you don't stick to the rules. There may be some martyr-type people, but there are as well people with real experiences with harassment or discrimination.

Re: Python programming is drowning in red tape

#109

Post by mercer »

micimize wrote: post #41

Hard forking a project to make use of the hard work the maintainers put in to it, then writing a post doing nothing but insulting those maintainer's decisions / preferences, is not a good look. Neither is throwing temper tantrums in issue threads: https://github.com/psf/black/issues/1178#issuecomment-565383... Also if this developer wasn't so obsessed with bikeshedding, they could just edit the one bit of formatting…

Oof. This kind of behavior would be enough for me to pass on hiring someone if I discovered it during the interview process...

EDIT: It also gives "I code stuff and try to crash in creative ways." in his profile a somewhat different meaning.

Re: Python programming is drowning in red tape

#110

Post by boomlinde »

echelon wrote: post #46

> a CODE_OF_CONDUCT, because we assume preemptively that you are a racist homophobic asshole, and we have to cover our bases. This one is a new personal pet peeve. I'm not a racist homophobe--I'm a good person. And though it doesn't give me any authority to speak on the matter, I'm bi and I've dated all sorts of people. I don't like to be presumed to be an asshole (or presume that others may be), and I'm offended tha…

I think it's there not because people are generally expected to behave this way, but to have a framework of rules for when someone occasionally does, so that you can say that moderation decisions aren't completely arbitrary when you kick them out, or so you can say that someone that was arbitrarily kicked out was kicked out for the wrong reasons.

It seems like it could be useful for large and socially important projects with many contributors IMO but I'm not sure why <10 contributor projects pick up on the habit.

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