L.A. Times to Furlough Workers as Ad Revenue ‘Nearly Eliminated’ • Hacker News Board

Re: L.A. Times to Furlough Workers as Ad Revenue ‘Nearly Eliminated’

#61

Post by christophilus » Wed, Apr 15, 2020, 12:56 AM UTC

torpfactory wrote: post #41

tempsy wrote: post #26

I’m definitely in the camp that “the cure cannot be worse than the disease” itself. Sitting in California where there are so few cases makes me wonder if the economic toll is totally worth it. Seems like we’ve used a tsunami to put out a campfire.

If you act early, it will always appear you overreacted. If you act too late, well... https://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/100000007076660/corona...

This goes both ways, though. If you act early-- and way over-react-- and it works, you get to claim to be the savior of the country, even though the reaction was disproportionate.

There's no way to disprove it.

Re: L.A. Times to Furlough Workers as Ad Revenue ‘Nearly Eliminated’

#62

Post by kinkrtyavimoodh » Wed, Apr 15, 2020, 12:56 AM UTC

eropple wrote: post #40

nightstaywalki wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m definitely in the camp that “the cure cannot be worse than the disease” itself. It seems to be forbidden to debate this unfortunately.

It’s not “forbidden” for y’all freethinkers or autodidacts or whatever the term today is to debate such things and to make the claim is dishonest. You’d have to find somebody to debate with , however, and most people are not particularly interested in “hang your Grandma for my stocks”. That is not a restriction of debate, it’s the social dumpstering of people beyond either statistics or empathy and that’s a feature a…

You seem to believe that 'stocks' are some abstract entity and are relevant only to the lives of people without grandmas to hang.

We don't live in a vacuum. Economic activity is not some cute thing people do in their free time. Recession also costs lives, including those of some grandmas.

Re: L.A. Times to Furlough Workers as Ad Revenue ‘Nearly Eliminated’

#63

Post by nightstaywalki » Wed, Apr 15, 2020, 12:57 AM UTC

eropple wrote: post #40

nightstaywalki wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m definitely in the camp that “the cure cannot be worse than the disease” itself. It seems to be forbidden to debate this unfortunately.

It’s not “forbidden” for y’all freethinkers or autodidacts or whatever the term today is to debate such things and to make the claim is dishonest. You’d have to find somebody to debate with , however, and most people are not particularly interested in “hang your Grandma for my stocks”. That is not a restriction of debate, it’s the social dumpstering of people beyond either statistics or empathy and that’s a feature a…

> “hang your Grandma for my stocks”

But people feed their children using the value of their stocks.

Do you think it's possible that a seriously damaged economy will lead to more suffering and deaths than are being prevented by the lockdown?

Re: L.A. Times to Furlough Workers as Ad Revenue ‘Nearly Eliminated’

#64

Post by slg » Wed, Apr 15, 2020, 12:57 AM UTC

makomk wrote: post #28

ghaff wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Maybe we move to a model where low quality/#FakeNews is free but quality costs and, presumably, you then move to a point where pooled subscriptions are a thing under that model. And it costs a substantial amount of money or you get it through a library. There's a lot less accessibility under that model, especially for those that don't really have disposable income. There's also the question of whether enough wil…

About the only US publication that seems to be making decent money from subscriptions is the New York Times, and I suspect they're at least partly trading on their name. The quality of their reporting... well, let's just say that I didn't expect to see the day when Snopes ended up debunking a conspiracy theory about the US president started by the NYT: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-profit-hydroxychloro...

That isn't a debunking of the NYT's story. It is a debunking of an interpretation of the story that many made due to either news illiteracy or malicious intent. That line got shared all over the place out of context. In context it was not the focus of the piece and was instead buried in the details as a disclaimer regarding the larger issue of who profits from this drug. Snopes isn't disputing anything actually reported by the NYT.

Re: L.A. Times to Furlough Workers as Ad Revenue ‘Nearly Eliminated’

#65

Post by CydeWeys » Wed, Apr 15, 2020, 12:57 AM UTC

christophilus wrote: post #47

thaumaturgy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been very hard for me to understand this line of thinking. As I see it, there are so few cases in California because of the measures that have been taken. Do you think California would not have many more cases if the measures were relaxed? Or do you think that the cases would not be all that bad? Or do you think that they would only affect people that you aren't personally concerned about? I'm asking honestly fo…

> there are so few cases in California because of the measures that have been taken This is probably true, but other countries haven't locked down hard and aren't seeing a big spread. Our options aren't binary. It's not as if the only choice is "Nuke everything" or "Surrender". The US is not a very densely populated country, and density seems to have the biggest impact on the spread of this thing. We probably could d…

> This is probably true, but other countries haven't locked down hard and aren't seeing a big spread.

Which countries might that be? If you're referring to South Korea, they're ahead of the game enough on testing for this to be workable (unlike us). If you're referring to anyone else, they're simply not at that point yet in the curve, but will arrive there.

Re: L.A. Times to Furlough Workers as Ad Revenue ‘Nearly Eliminated’

#66

Post by eropple » Wed, Apr 15, 2020, 12:57 AM UTC

volak wrote: post #53

eropple wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not “forbidden” for y’all freethinkers or autodidacts or whatever the term today is to debate such things and to make the claim is dishonest. You’d have to find somebody to debate with , however, and most people are not particularly interested in “hang your Grandma for my stocks”. That is not a restriction of debate, it’s the social dumpstering of people beyond either statistics or empathy and that’s a feature a…

Framing the debate as "your grandma or your 401k" is precisely the gas lighting that prevents rational discussion on this topic

I submit that you don't know what gaslighting is. Further, I submit that you're attempting to coopt the language of marginalized groups to buttress a weak and selfish viewpoint.

I shall not buy what you are selling.

Re: L.A. Times to Furlough Workers as Ad Revenue ‘Nearly Eliminated’

#67

Post by tempsy » Wed, Apr 15, 2020, 12:57 AM UTC

simonw wrote: post #30

tempsy wrote: post #26

I’m definitely in the camp that “the cure cannot be worse than the disease” itself. Sitting in California where there are so few cases makes me wonder if the economic toll is totally worth it. Seems like we’ve used a tsunami to put out a campfire.

It seems pretty clear to me that California has so few cases precisely because of the measures it has taken.

The economic toll of shelter in place vs enforced social distancing + mask wearing while keeping most businesses open is huge though. I’m not convinced quarantine is/was necessary for most of the country, including California.

Re: L.A. Times to Furlough Workers as Ad Revenue ‘Nearly Eliminated’

#68

Post by option » Wed, Apr 15, 2020, 12:57 AM UTC

yibg wrote: post #52

istorical wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are open questions about how much our current actions are preventing deaths vs delaying them, what the difference is in terms of number of deaths caused by stay-at-home order vs more mild social distancing, and what downstream effects and deaths will result from a new global depression (especially in the developing world).

Are there any examples of milder social distancing without extensive testing and contact tracing that has been effective? There are certainly a lot of examples of delayed or poorly enforced / adhered social distancing that has proved to be ineffective.

Sweden. Also look how different states/counties are affected in US

Re: L.A. Times to Furlough Workers as Ad Revenue ‘Nearly Eliminated’

#69

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Apr 15, 2020, 12:57 AM UTC

tootie wrote: post #58

rock8y wrote: post #20

Things are much worse at Gannett, parent company of usatoday. Personally, being laid off on March 31! Almost every employee is effected at this time, either furloughed for few hours a week, pay cut or let go !!

I'm surprised. I'd think online news would be one of the industries benefitting from this crisis. Is the revenue tied to lack of conversions on online ads?

[deleted]

Re: L.A. Times to Furlough Workers as Ad Revenue ‘Nearly Eliminated’

#70

Post by eropple » Wed, Apr 15, 2020, 12:57 AM UTC

nightstaywalki wrote: post #63

eropple wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not “forbidden” for y’all freethinkers or autodidacts or whatever the term today is to debate such things and to make the claim is dishonest. You’d have to find somebody to debate with , however, and most people are not particularly interested in “hang your Grandma for my stocks”. That is not a restriction of debate, it’s the social dumpstering of people beyond either statistics or empathy and that’s a feature a…

> “hang your Grandma for my stocks” But people feed their children using the value of their stocks. Do you think it's possible that a seriously damaged economy will lead to more suffering and deaths than are being prevented by the lockdown?

In no realistic permutation. Thanks for asking!