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Nearly half of global coal plants will be unprofitable this year

reuters.com

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Re: Nearly half of global coal plants will be unprofitable this year

#101
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computer prices are only falling when you compare processors with the same speed and monitors with the same resolution. Overall, prices might as well increase if you look at the prices of the last flagship phones or at least remain stable if you look at main memory. It comes down to the [1] Jevons paradox. >In 1865, the English economist William Stanley Jevons observed that technological improvements that increased t…

> PV and Wind fell because they were above the market costs of energy. Once they are below, they will stop falling further As PV and wind fall in cost, they will end up dictating the market price. So, you are technically correct, but otherwise wrong: the current market price is no floor for the cost of PV and wind, any more than (at any point) the cost per unit of computation or storage was the floor on the cost of c…

>the cost per unit of computation or storage was the floor on the cost of computers.

What do you mean? That the energy bill for computers is bigger than the material bill?

What else but the price of the hardware has determined the price of computers?

>I expect PV to drive the levelized cost of power below $0.01/kWh

For some time, this is possible. But if there is a sea of energy, people will find a way to use it. Then, demand rises and prices will rise again.

Sooner or later, material science, genetics and everything else will simulate everything. Progress will depend on the amount of energy that is spent on those calculations. The cloud will take any energy that it can get. Bitcoin was just the start.

Humans take roughly 2kWh worth of food per day. We are willing to pay about $20 for it. It might as well be that energy prices rise to $10/kWh. Not because PV itself is expensive, but because somebody owns the land where the PV modules are standing.

Re: Nearly half of global coal plants will be unprofitable this year

#102
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Sino-Soviet_Border_Agreem... I think border disagreement already solved. Besides, I believe they realize the contention between them only strengthens NATO over them. I think the possible conflict nowadays is influence over central Asia. However, they might share the influence with China got the economic influence and Russia got political influence. It is interesting to pre…

I mean, that's for now. Russia and the US also signed an agreement over the Ukraine in 1994 and look how that went.

That's why if one of the parties goes caput the balance might be disturbed.

Re: Nearly half of global coal plants will be unprofitable this year

#103
post #51

From what I understand there is an ongoing battle in the Chinese government between those who understand the country desperately needs to get off of fossil fuels as soon as possible, and those who want to stay on coal forever. So at the same time that China has been building an enormous number of coal plants, it is also building renewable power plants and pushing hard on ev's.

>there is an ongoing battle ... between those who understand the country desperately needs to get off of fossil fuels as soon as possible, and those who want to stay on coal forever. Sounds like a certain other major country.

The difference is the head of state of China is an engineer and in touch with reality on this matter.

Re: Nearly half of global coal plants will be unprofitable this year

#104
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Close or mothballed? There is a difference. I met someone some years back who's job was to keep a coal power plant operational. The boiler was from the 1880s, and the generator installed in the 1920s. They don't use the generator as regular mains power costs 5 times less due to the efficiency of modern technology. However the utility gives them a large enough discount on power to keep it running that he had a job and…

Most peaker plants are natural gas these days. Coal plants tend to take a lot longer to start. Regardless of that, from a climate change point of view, a plant that runs for a small amount of time once per 5 years is not that significant.

True, but base load plants are needed in reserve as well.

Re: Nearly half of global coal plants will be unprofitable this year

#105

From what I understand there is an ongoing battle in the Chinese government between those who understand the country desperately needs to get off of fossil fuels as soon as possible, and those who want to stay on coal forever. So at the same time that China has been building an enormous number of coal plants, it is also building renewable power plants and pushing hard on ev's.

China's Five Year Plans are very big on numbers. I don't think I've seen one where China has ever reduced a target related to economic expansion. I'm kind of surprised they even need that much more power at this point, since the country is fairly developed, where growth tapers off and energy efficiency starts rising.

While the developed part of China is gigantic, my understanding is that half the country still lives in the countryside and is relatively underdeveloped, and the government is working to rapidly move them to cities.

Re: Nearly half of global coal plants will be unprofitable this year

#106
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> PV and Wind fell because they were above the market costs of energy. Once they are below, they will stop falling further As PV and wind fall in cost, they will end up dictating the market price. So, you are technically correct, but otherwise wrong: the current market price is no floor for the cost of PV and wind, any more than (at any point) the cost per unit of computation or storage was the floor on the cost of c…

>the cost per unit of computation or storage was the floor on the cost of computers. What do you mean? That the energy bill for computers is bigger than the material bill? What else but the price of the hardware has determined the price of computers? >I expect PV to drive the levelized cost of power below $0.01/kWh For some time, this is possible. But if there is a sea of energy, people will find a way to use it. The…

What I meant was clear (and not what you wrote there.)

Jevon does not say that prices cannot fall. So if you're trying to use it to say prices will not fall, you're doing it all wrong.

Re: Nearly half of global coal plants will be unprofitable this year

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the cost per unit of computation or storage was the floor on the cost of computers. What do you mean? That the energy bill for computers is bigger than the material bill? What else but the price of the hardware has determined the price of computers? >I expect PV to drive the levelized cost of power below $0.01/kWh For some time, this is possible. But if there is a sea of energy, people will find a way to use it. The…

What I meant was clear (and not what you wrote there.) Jevon does not say that prices cannot fall. So if you're trying to use it to say prices will not fall, you're doing it all wrong.

>What I meant was clear

Unfortunately not to me.

Re: Nearly half of global coal plants will be unprofitable this year

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yeah, I love lighting my water on fire and fracking earthquakes Natural gas from fracking does not cause burning tap water. https://www.cred.org/is-fracking-connected-to-burning-tap-wa... Fracking-related earthquakes are either minimal or bebeficial https://www.americangeosciences.org/critical-issues/faq/does... 0/10 "green energy" shill. Fracking gave us dirt cheap natgas, which is damn cleaner than coal AND why yo…

> Natural gas from fracking does not cause burning tap water. I'll take a step back from "burning", because that seems hard to prove, but it most certainly does contaminate ground water: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fracking-can-cont... > Fracking-related earthquakes are either minimal or bebeficial That's the most insane claim I've read on the Internet this week. You should be ashamed for saying that.…

> I'll take a step back from "burning", because that seems hard to prove, but it most certainly does contaminate ground water

Fracking wastes (the sluice of water, sand and a scant amount of chems) does not equal natural gas.

Natural gas does NOT contaminate water. Fuck off.

Re: Nearly half of global coal plants will be unprofitable this year

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yeah, I love lighting my water on fire and fracking earthquakes Natural gas from fracking does not cause burning tap water. https://www.cred.org/is-fracking-connected-to-burning-tap-wa... Fracking-related earthquakes are either minimal or bebeficial https://www.americangeosciences.org/critical-issues/faq/does... 0/10 "green energy" shill. Fracking gave us dirt cheap natgas, which is damn cleaner than coal AND why yo…

What is cred.org? CRED (Coloradans for Responsible Energy Development) Our Membership Our members are leaders in the Colorado oil and natural gas community: Occidental Petroleum Corporation, Noble Energy, Bayswater Exploration and Production, DCP Midstream, Liberty Oilfield Services, PDC Energy Not exactly a trustworthy source you've got there.

"Oh noes, the corporations used science! That's not fair!"

Find me a "credible source" that shows natural gas contaminates water. Go ahead. I'll wait.

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