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Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

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Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#141

Post by fragmede »

fortran77 wrote: post #29
tcbawo wrote: post #3

Not a doctor. A major issue with using this type of CPAP machine on a Covid-19 positive person is the high amount of aerosolized virus particles it exhausts. Anyone using this should be extremely careful and know what they're doing. That being said, doctors in many countries are using positive air pressure machines with an air-tight helmet/bag with filtered exhaust.

What's scary is that CPAP machines are allowed on airplanes. If they really aerosolize virus particles, maybe they shouldn't be.

I don’t want to alarm you unnecessarily, but they let ordinary people with virus aerosolizing equipment (lungs + diaphragm) onto airplanes, currently.

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#142

Post by [deleted] »

bearcobra wrote: post #134
sneak wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If these devices malfunction, they could hurt people. I think that the circumstances under which these are being developed are a special emergency; the alternative to using such a less-safe, makeshift device here would be no ventilator at all, i.e. near-certain death. In this specific circumstance, I think this sort of criticism should be withheld. I don't think anyone's talking about reflashing CPAPs to be life su…

The YouTube channel Real Engineering has a great video breaking down why that might not actually be true. The possibility that makeshift devices could cause barotrauma and make things worse seems quite significant. You can check it out here if your interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vLPefHYWpY

[deleted]

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#143

Post by sneak »

bearcobra wrote: post #134
sneak wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If these devices malfunction, they could hurt people. I think that the circumstances under which these are being developed are a special emergency; the alternative to using such a less-safe, makeshift device here would be no ventilator at all, i.e. near-certain death. In this specific circumstance, I think this sort of criticism should be withheld. I don't think anyone's talking about reflashing CPAPs to be life su…

The YouTube channel Real Engineering has a great video breaking down why that might not actually be true. The possibility that makeshift devices could cause barotrauma and make things worse seems quite significant. You can check it out here if your interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vLPefHYWpY

I just watched the video. I'm not sure what outcome is worse than "you need a ventilator, but we are out of all of the safe, high-quality ones, and so you will now suffocate and die". In that circumstance I am certain that very nearly 100% of patients would accept potential barotrauma versus the alternative.

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#145

Post by r-s »

prostheticvamp wrote: post #109
ars wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree. And the worst part is sleep studies are medically unnecessary - an APAP machine (automatic machine) can auto-set the necessary pressure, and no sleep study is needed. Simply sleep with an APAP for a week, review the pressure graph and draw a line at the bottom of the values. Then set the minimum pressure to that number, or slightly less and done. Review every few months. If you ask a Dr. about this…

Hahahahah. Oh man. The vast majority of patients take months or longer to get acclimated to the machine. Most will say they feel /worse/, because the machine gets in the way of their sleep at first. I look forward to hearing more medical pearls from the web design community.

I bought a CPAP off an Amazon seller here in Canada a few years back. I have a large neck and would wake up gasping for air in the night. It was going to be several months to get the sleep study so one day I impulse bought it. First night I slept 8 hours, couldn't remember the last time I did that. Best $600 I ever spent.

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#147

Post by reaperducer »

DenisM wrote: post #116
reaperducer wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mine makes a burning smell if I run out of water in the night. Wakes me up very quickly.

Turn off the tank heater?

No option for that. I can adjust the humidity up and down, but the lowest setting still heats.

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#148

Post by fragmede »

gmueckl wrote: post #113
wormyrocks wrote: post #56

Hi, I worked on this project and have a couple comments to address the issues people are raising. - There are established medical protocols to treat COVID-19 patients with BiPAP machines, including the addition of a viral filter to mitigate aerosolizing the virus. People are using these protocols now and we link to them from the site. - There are two separate firmware hacks presented. The first one modifies ~20 bytes…

> a near identical array of sensors I don't know anything about the devices in question, but from what I know of engineering of medical devices, stating "near identical" makes me listen up. If these devices malfunction, they could hurt people. I expect a device like this to have an extensive array of sensors and a lot of extra hardware for constant self-monitoring. If the two lines of devices don't have exactly ident…

> I don't know anything about the devices in question,

Since, by your own admission, you nothing about the details here, maybe it would be prudent to dig into the details and to not spread Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt (FUD) just because you’ve been bitten while working on circuits where “nearly identical“ components often aren’t.

It’s fair to point out for medical equipment, how critical it is that the proper QA be done, to prevent severe injury and possibly death, but the ad-homonym name calling is unnecessary. In fact, there’s a shelter-in-place order in effect in many places, so engineering is being forced to happen in the open, in non-traditional places, including basements.

Like you said, it will have to certified that it’s up to the standards of the FDA before being used in a hospital by a medical professional, so I’m not sure I even see where you’re coming from. We’re not drinking aquarium cleaner here.

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#149

Post by cpwright »

ars wrote: post #81
favorited wrote: post #23

The CPAP jailbreak community was eye-opening when I first learned of it. I never expected something like that, but with the draconian policies it's not surprising. For example, my CPAP has a CDMA radio inside, which transmits usage data back to the manufacturer & my doctor. Insurance won't pay for it unless the machine tells them I'm using it – so a medical device company has a record of when I sleep and wake, which…

The CPAP world is a microcosm of what's wrong in the medical world, i.e. why things cost so much. A CPAP machines costs about 10x as much as it should, and a part of that is insurance companies wanting to make sure they are not paying for a device you are not using. Which then increases the price, which makes insurance companies even more worried about them. Then you are paternalism where only a Dr. is allowed to cha…

"A CPAP machines costs about 10x as much as it should, and a part of that is insurance companies wanting to make sure they are not paying for a device you are not using."

If you look just at BOM, I am sure my insulin pump must seem the same way (about $3500); but the technical support from Medtronic is top notch and the devices are not mass market; probably only about 100,000 of them each year (just based on a 4 year warranty period, which is when your insurance covers them, and a quick google showing about 350,000 on them).

I do think there is a bit of a razor blade model here though, given that the consumables will cost nearly as much as the pump over the course of a year.

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#150

Post by TylerE »

favorited wrote: post #137
TylerE wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes.

My big fear when starting with it was that it would be horrible to use when you have a cold, but so far I haven't had any issues with it.

Yeah it’s been all good for me. Also solved the fairly frequent nosebloods I used to get with the humidity
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