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GitHub is now free for teams

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Re: GitHub is now free for teams

#391

Post by geofft »

DennisAleynikov wrote: post #387
SrslyJosh wrote: post #381

Hi Nat, ICE kidnaps children and forces their captives to live in unsafe, inhumane, over-crowded conditions in the middle of a global pandemic. Why do you work with them?

terrible question and off topic get political complaints out of here, github is a programming tool. doesn't matter if police use the same non lethal tools as normal citizens.

Can you explain this position? If GitHub were funding their free teams product with revenue from, say, organized crime which is kidnapping children, would it be appropriate and on-topic to ask about that? But it's no longer appropriate when it's a government agency?

Is it just US government agencies, or would it be appropriate again to ask if the funding were coming from ISIS?

Also, is it generally the case that complaints about the NSA and their spying programs are off-topic for HN because they too are a US government agency? Or is that different?

Re: GitHub is now free for teams

#393

Post by tracker1 »

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #75
natfriedman wrote: post #26

Hi HN, I'm the CEO of GitHub. Everyone at GitHub is really excited about this announcement, and I'm happy to answer any questions. We've wanted to make this change for the last 18 months, but needed our Enterprise business to be big enough to enable the free use of GitHub by the rest of the world. I'm happy to say that it's grown dramatically in the last year, and so we're able to make GitHub free for teams that don'…

I'd like to share feedback on GitHub Actions. Tried it out, and the learning curve was too much. I want to use stuff I already know -- e.g., write a Dockerfile, and then GH could run it on PR builds. The "workflow" concept didn't land for me, and I hope you consider a more generalized, open-source approach to running arbitrary scripts in response to PRs being opened, merges to master, etc.

I don't think it was particularly difficult to use... the multi-os targets are probably about the most confusing.

I tend to stick with bare scripts and npm scripts as much as possible though, so the environment doesn't matter as much.

Re: GitHub is now free for teams

#394

Post by crispinb »

rexpop wrote: post #384
SrslyJosh wrote: post #381

Hi Nat, ICE kidnaps children and forces their captives to live in unsafe, inhumane, over-crowded conditions in the middle of a global pandemic. Why do you work with them?

This should be the overriding concern of everyone in this forum. It's no longer astonishing[0], but it is quite disgusting how HN participants are able to compartmentalize their enthusiasm for technology away from moral or ethical qualms. I suppose the most generous interpretation is to assume that they are simply unaware.[1] Upstream of that ignorance, however, is a fearful unwillingness to interrogate the foundatio…

Not compartmentalising is trickier than you imply, as the whole corporate-capitalist system of power (which supplies nearly all of your and my goods) depends at its root on current exploitation and drawing down on its investment in future destruction (of the entire biosphere). We can point fingers at many hideous individual corporate citizens in tech (Dropbox & Amazon spring immediately to mind, current Microsoft doesn't), but the whole system depends intrinsically on maintaining the ignorance you write of.

How to extricate ourselves from all that? Personally, I'm for revolution to take it all down. But we know that isn't going to happen.

Re: GitHub is now free for teams

#395

Post by DennisAleynikov »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #390
DennisAleynikov wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

terrible question and off topic get political complaints out of here, github is a programming tool. doesn't matter if police use the same non lethal tools as normal citizens.

You know what the Greeks would have thought about someone that doesn't care about politics? They'd think their best station in life would to be a slave.

but how does politics apply to such a boring tool like github? its like saying ICE shouldn't use Google Docs or Gimp...

its not a weapon or an advantage in actual human cruelty that furthers non altruistic goals.

Re: GitHub is now free for teams

#396

Post by crispinb »

DennisAleynikov wrote: post #387
SrslyJosh wrote: post #381

Hi Nat, ICE kidnaps children and forces their captives to live in unsafe, inhumane, over-crowded conditions in the middle of a global pandemic. Why do you work with them?

terrible question and off topic get political complaints out of here, github is a programming tool. doesn't matter if police use the same non lethal tools as normal citizens.

How far around your head do your political blinkers wrap? Would you be happy to write control programs for torture workstations?

Re: GitHub is now free for teams

#397

Post by geofft »

SrslyJosh wrote: post #381

Hi Nat, ICE kidnaps children and forces their captives to live in unsafe, inhumane, over-crowded conditions in the middle of a global pandemic. Why do you work with them?

Didn't he answer that in the comment you're replying to? He needed to get enough revenue from ICE to make GitHub free for non-enterprise users.

Re: GitHub is now free for teams

#398

Post by Nullabillity »

zaat wrote: post #373
Nullabillity wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And your employer is typically very happy to pay money for productivity. And that's money that's not going to better equipment. Or your salary. Or whatever else that it could be spent on that would have a far bigger effect. > But paying for good tooling is normal not strange. Paying for bad tooling is normal. Good tooling tends to come as a consequence of trying to solve something else. Bad tooling also tends to be…

> Visual Studio had to build their own Docker wrapper, because telling people to just use it directly would give their users a glimpse of the outside world, and we can't have that! Do you actually believe this was the reason behind developing Docker wrapper for VS? I mean you can always try stretching out the worst intention and motives, but do you actually believe this? Suppose you do, how do you think about the gaz…

> Do you actually believe this was the reason behind developing Docker wrapper for VS? I mean you can always try stretching out the worst intention and motives, but do you actually believe this?

I don't think there is an explicit conspiracy. I do think there is a negative spiral where IDE addicts (for the lack of a better term) produce tools that "help" others avoid leaving their comfort zone.

I'm not immune to it either. When trying to learn Kubernetes I spent weeks fighting the graphical dashboard before just hunkering down and learning the core concepts and building my own intuition.

And I still like having an integrated environment. But with Emacs I'm at least generally just a `describe-function` or `describe-key` away from peeking behind the curtains.

> The fact that you can distribute software for nearly free doesn't make the cost of producing it to be cheaper than hammer.

Bad analogy. Producing it would be closer to developing the blueprint. Which is:

1. Done once

2. Tends to happen without economic incentives because, as it turns out, you probably want a hammer too

Re: GitHub is now free for teams

#399

Post by DennisAleynikov »

kfrzcode wrote: post #392
SrslyJosh wrote: post #381

Hi Nat, ICE kidnaps children and forces their captives to live in unsafe, inhumane, over-crowded conditions in the middle of a global pandemic. Why do you work with them?

Don't need to be the CEO of GitHub to answer that question. Why? Because money.

more importantly why not?

github is not doing anything special to make ICE worse. the reasoning of divestment from disagreeable organizations is an individual right, but does not make sense to be adopted as a company policy to not work with LEO's.

being politically minded at a company is fine, but trying to shame companies into adopting your ideals is unrealistic and counterproductive for neutral tools like Github

Re: GitHub is now free for teams

#400

Post by sneak »

anderspitman wrote: post #284
sneak wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like anyone who lived through the 90s could have expected "these kinds of results". Git is open source and widely supported, which doesn't benefit Microsoft. By causing GitHub-specific features to be an essential part of a "modern" or "industry standard" git workflow, they can capture more marketshare/attention, and cause alternatives to be sidelined. This requires removing all friction to entering the proprie…

I think it's worth pointing out that GH was always on this path, to the point where it's actually kind of hard to explain the difference between git and GitHub to fairly technical people. It's also worth pointing out that it doesn't have to come from malicious intentions.

It's tough to say that the urge to replace free software and open collaboration protocols with proprietary, closed source pay-to-play tools that the user isn't in control of (the whole GitHub SaaS model) isn't "malicious intentions".

It's replacing an open, free (in both senses), decentralized system with a closed, for-profit, centralized one that expressly benefits a single organization at the expense of everyone else in the ecosystem.

This is not to say that GitHub isn't a benefit over emailing patches around; just that it's probably also worth mentioning that Linus et al have not migrated to this shiny new (centralized) system for the largest collaborative development effort in the history of the world, and, indeed, git itself was developed specifically to avoid a hard dependency on a single, centralized point.

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