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Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

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Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#41

Post by gruez »

fortran77 wrote: post #29
tcbawo wrote: post #3

Not a doctor. A major issue with using this type of CPAP machine on a Covid-19 positive person is the high amount of aerosolized virus particles it exhausts. Anyone using this should be extremely careful and know what they're doing. That being said, doctors in many countries are using positive air pressure machines with an air-tight helmet/bag with filtered exhaust.

What's scary is that CPAP machines are allowed on airplanes. If they really aerosolize virus particles, maybe they shouldn't be.

The parent commenter only mentioned that it exhausts aerosolized virus particles, not that it produces any. Do they emit/amplify aerosolized virus particles themselves? If so, by what mechanism?

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#42

Post by shawnz »

wayoutthere wrote: post #32
gvjddbnvdrbv wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a real adaptation being used by real doctors in real hospitals to save real people's lives. There is a pandemic on.

I actually have yet to hear any reports of improvised ventilators being used outside of ventilating multiple patients from a single ventilator. A big reason is that doctors and nurses simply aren't trained to use improvised devices in a way they can trust to be safe. First, do no harm.

They describe such usages in the first sentence of the article. Mt. Sinai researchers are actively working on converting BiPAP machines into ventilators.

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#43

Post by rootusrootus »

hangonhn wrote: post #35
rootusrootus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A typical modern CPAP also takes measurements, and makes limited adjustments based on what it sees. It doesn't just pump air. Not that it's as capable as a real ventilator, but it's not just a simple air pump, either.

You also need to warm and humidify the air because ventilators are inserted past the part of your respiratory system that does that.

I assume a CPAP could only ever be hacked into being some form of non-invasive ventilator, not the kind where you are intubated. But I may be 100% wrong.

In any case, a standard Resmed CPAP like the one in the article has a humidifier built in, and if you buy the optional heated hose, it can heat the air too. The tank is kinda small on the humidifier, so you'd have to refill it pretty often. Probably want to hack it into having a lot more volume, if you need the humidity.

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#44

Post by reaperducer »

favorited wrote: post #23

The CPAP jailbreak community was eye-opening when I first learned of it. I never expected something like that, but with the draconian policies it's not surprising. For example, my CPAP has a CDMA radio inside, which transmits usage data back to the manufacturer & my doctor. Insurance won't pay for it unless the machine tells them I'm using it – so a medical device company has a record of when I sleep and wake, which…

Once the insurance has finished paying for it (eight months in my case), you can disable the radio.

Some doctors (mine included) prefer getting your data off the memory card when you visit the office, rather than downloading it from the internet anyway.

The radio has to be optional for people whose beds are in places with unreliable or no cellular service (high up in buildings, in basements, fringe areas, etc...)

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#45

Post by [deleted] »

hangonhn wrote: post #35
rootusrootus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A typical modern CPAP also takes measurements, and makes limited adjustments based on what it sees. It doesn't just pump air. Not that it's as capable as a real ventilator, but it's not just a simple air pump, either.

You also need to warm and humidify the air because ventilators are inserted past the part of your respiratory system that does that.

[deleted]

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#46

Post by reaperducer »

dpeck wrote: post #38
fortran77 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's scary is that CPAP machines are allowed on airplanes. If they really aerosolize virus particles, maybe they shouldn't be.

At least on Delta flights they’re not allowed to be used, I’m not sure if the same policy exists on other airlines. Edit: I was wrong, see below

I'd be very surprised to see any airline restrict the use of a medical device onboard. The manual that came with mine states that airlines are required to let you use it, and the manufacturer sells an airline-friendly battery pack. Do you have a link to Delta's policy on this?

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#47

Post by reaperducer »

IdoRA wrote: post #36

There is a reasonable chance that this will not be as useful as the team hopes: 1) They are increasing maximum pressure and pressure rate changes beyond the built-in design parameters. If these new parameters are outside what the engineering requirements document spec, these changes are a problem in seeking EUA. 2) In regulatory affairs, authorized , cleared , and approved have very specific (and enforceable) meaning…

These are not normal times, and I can certainly see a doctor with tinkering skills modding his office's CPAP stock in order to save lives.

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#48

Post by reaperducer »

hangonhn wrote: post #35
rootusrootus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A typical modern CPAP also takes measurements, and makes limited adjustments based on what it sees. It doesn't just pump air. Not that it's as capable as a real ventilator, but it's not just a simple air pump, either.

You also need to warm and humidify the air because ventilators are inserted past the part of your respiratory system that does that.

You also need to warm and humidify the air because ventilators are inserted past the part of your respiratory system that does that.

Many (most?) CPAP's do that. When you have to fill the reservoir every night you get an interesting perspective on the amount of water you breathe in eight hours.

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#49

Post by dpeck »

reaperducer wrote: post #46
dpeck wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least on Delta flights they’re not allowed to be used, I’m not sure if the same policy exists on other airlines. Edit: I was wrong, see below

I'd be very surprised to see any airline restrict the use of a medical device onboard. The manual that came with mine states that airlines are required to let you use it, and the manufacturer sells an airline-friendly battery pack. Do you have a link to Delta's policy on this?

My mistake, I was wrong. They allow use, but it has to have its own power supply https://www.delta.com/us/en/accessible-travel-services/assis...

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#50

Post by fiftyacorn »

Would these not be too simple to address the ventilation requirements of the coronavirus?

This was the case with the ventilators from a consortium in the UK, where the profile of corona requires more complex ventilation -

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/13/uk-scraps-plan...

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