Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: In the current crisis is starting freelancing doable?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 77 posts

Re: Ask HN: In the current crisis is starting freelancing doable?

#51

Post by themodelplumber »

poulsbohemian wrote: post #46
themodelplumber wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. I know a lot of people who did almost none of this and freelanced their way into successful businesses. Why is having an accountant necessary? Where I live, even simple books from the office supply store and basic tax software will tell you what you need to know as a beginner. Personally I operated my business just fine for 15 years without an accountant. Drawing up a contract, similar, but here I would certainl…

>Drawing up a contract, similar, but here I would certainly mention that you can also consult a professional if needed, like a business consultant or attorney. You can also write a letter contract and communicate well enough that contracts don't matter that much in the end, which is the case for a lot of freelancers, guessing the majority. Having had to take legal action against multiple clients, I assure you that it…

I hope for your sake that's not the majority of your work! Personally I've found that if I have to reference a contract to make a point, it's almost always a red flag-level event for that relationship.

Re: Ask HN: In the current crisis is starting freelancing doable?

#52

Post by themodelplumber »

dep_b wrote: post #36
themodelplumber wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. I know a lot of people who did almost none of this and freelanced their way into successful businesses. Why is having an accountant necessary? Where I live, even simple books from the office supply store and basic tax software will tell you what you need to know as a beginner. Personally I operated my business just fine for 15 years without an accountant. Drawing up a contract, similar, but here I would certainl…

My accountants saved me enough money every year to be basically free, while I don't need to worry about all kinds of stuff. I did my taxes myself often as well, but I didn't like to do it (instead of doing billable work or having spare time). Contracts: I really suck at them. I rarely do them. I got lucky so far, perhaps 2 clients that managed to pinch me but then again assholes will be assholes with or without contr…

> My accountants saved me enough money every year to be basically free

This is true for a _lot_ of people. :-) "basically free". It made me smile because it's usually not "saved me megabucks," but rather "their work allows me to focus on other things and that's worth something to me."

Re: Ask HN: In the current crisis is starting freelancing doable?

#53

Post by jlevers »

dep_b wrote: post #36
themodelplumber wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. I know a lot of people who did almost none of this and freelanced their way into successful businesses. Why is having an accountant necessary? Where I live, even simple books from the office supply store and basic tax software will tell you what you need to know as a beginner. Personally I operated my business just fine for 15 years without an accountant. Drawing up a contract, similar, but here I would certainl…

My accountants saved me enough money every year to be basically free, while I don't need to worry about all kinds of stuff. I did my taxes myself often as well, but I didn't like to do it (instead of doing billable work or having spare time). Contracts: I really suck at them. I rarely do them. I got lucky so far, perhaps 2 clients that managed to pinch me but then again assholes will be assholes with or without contr…

As a consultant with no accountant -- in what areas did they save you that much? Entirely taxes?

Re: Ask HN: In the current crisis is starting freelancing doable?

#54

Post by themodelplumber »

valuearb wrote: post #42
dep_b wrote: post #25

The requirements to start as a freelancer, in any kind of economic climate: * You have an accountant * You are not afraid to draw up a contract * Have a skill that has higher demand than supply and will remain so for a foreseeable time * Have worked on paid side projects a few times * One existing customer is interested in hiring you for 3 months (worth of money) or more Ensure you set aside 50% of which 2/3rds for t…

I was working full time on a side project a week and a half ago, when a former boss approached with a client he couldn’t service who urgently needed a developer with my skill set. I negotiated a higher rate and now am working full time for them. I don’t have any accountant, no contract. They will either pay me or it’s back to my side project.

You reminded me of a successful animator friend from long ago. He did work for all of the big names in animation, but would never sign a contract. He told them, "if you want me to do the work, let's do this. If you don't treat me well, we're done. If I don't treat you well, it'll be easy to get rid of me." It was a pretty brash style but it matched the kind of breezy guy he wanted to be.

There were quite a few contractors during the dot com days that were like this too--I remember some had a policy of hearing "let me explain why your paycheck will be late" and just walking out right then. Others would say, "I'm staying for a while, because I'm living off of money I made 3 months ago." And others would go right to the co-founder or COO or marketing lead and start a new business with them on the spot...something different, but comfortable since they already knew they could work together.

Re: Ask HN: In the current crisis is starting freelancing doable?

#55

Post by poulsbohemian »

themodelplumber wrote: post #51
poulsbohemian wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Drawing up a contract, similar, but here I would certainly mention that you can also consult a professional if needed, like a business consultant or attorney. You can also write a letter contract and communicate well enough that contracts don't matter that much in the end, which is the case for a lot of freelancers, guessing the majority. Having had to take legal action against multiple clients, I assure you that it…

I hope for your sake that's not the majority of your work! Personally I've found that if I have to reference a contract to make a point, it's almost always a red flag-level event for that relationship.

Hey Marc! Good to "see" you again. There's a sad old saying in business that you know you've "made it" in business when someone sues you. There's something to that unfortunately, that if you are in business long enough, chances are you'll be on one side or the other of legal action. It happens. You misjudge a client, maybe they have some personal issues that bleed into a business, maybe there is a market downturn and they make some question choices. Things happen. Point being, the posters in this thread recommending the use of lawyers and accountants to protect your interests are spot on imho.

Re: Ask HN: In the current crisis is starting freelancing doable?

#56

Post by bambataa »

Joe8Bit wrote: post #14

The contract market in London is in a difficult place at the moment. IR35 has generally made buyers weary (in a way they weren't before) as well as limited the type of work contractors are given; budgets have also been very tightly squeezed because of Corona, it's hitting contractors pretty hard. As a 'buyer' of these services myself, full-stack JS dev contractors are in one of the most oversaturated parts of the mar…

This has been my experience as a contractor. My contract got ended early and some early leads ended with the client putting all contractors on hold.

OP, if you can get something on the side then go for it but it seems very risky to go full-time at the minute. That said, you have a lot more experience than me.

Re: Ask HN: In the current crisis is starting freelancing doable?

#57

Post by sbacic »

Joe8Bit wrote: post #14

The contract market in London is in a difficult place at the moment. IR35 has generally made buyers weary (in a way they weren't before) as well as limited the type of work contractors are given; budgets have also been very tightly squeezed because of Corona, it's hitting contractors pretty hard. As a 'buyer' of these services myself, full-stack JS dev contractors are in one of the most oversaturated parts of the mar…

Interesting. How is the market in London for frontend devs, specifically ones working in the React stack (plus some GraphQL)?

I was in London last year and got the impression that it's a pretty lackluster market - high cost of living, average earning potential. I did some back of the napkin math and realized it only made sense if I worked remotely and occasionally visited London (once a month, twice a month maybe?).

What do you think is the going rate in London for short-term (up to 3 months max, preferable 1-1.5 month contracts) freelancers that don't live there but can occasionally visit for meetings and such?

Re: Ask HN: In the current crisis is starting freelancing doable?

#58

Post by batmaniam »

seankimdesign wrote: post #43
wayoutthere wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 20% number comes from the expected revenue hit companies are looking at. Honestly, they're doing it because they can get away with it right now. What do you want to bet that many of these 20% salary reductions will be permanent? In my view, these companies can fuck right off. They're not paying their workers more when they have a great quarter, so why should they pay people less when things aren't going well? I s…

The reduction in pay comes with a reduction in workload. Which means that for most companies adopting the 20% paycut, they are also transitioning into a 4-day work week. Its hardly a related to some corporate greed trying to squeeze their workers, but a sign of desperate measures for desperate times.

I have a hard time believing that workload is reduced. In theory it makes sense, but companies are not charities, and unless the government makes it the rule that workload gets reduced, I think it's just gonna be a direct paycut.

Re: Ask HN: In the current crisis is starting freelancing doable?

#59

Post by saluki »

Aside from the legalities regarding your employer/employment.

I expect more companies are going to be using freelancers for projects and tasks to minimize using employees since everything is currently uncertain.

I wouldn't recommend using online services to find projects. Reach out to your network (outside of your employer/co-workers) to find projects.

Research what to charge and how to manage your freelance projects.

Now could also be a good time to use your 20% time to build up an audience for future info products or start stair stepping from products to a SaaS (Rob Walling, see below).

You might enjoy StartupsForTheRestOfUs.com podcast, start in the archives with episode 1.

Build Your SaaS is a great podcast as well.

Good luck.

Re: Ask HN: In the current crisis is starting freelancing doable?

#60

Post by Joe8Bit »

sbacic wrote: post #57
Joe8Bit wrote: post #14

The contract market in London is in a difficult place at the moment. IR35 has generally made buyers weary (in a way they weren't before) as well as limited the type of work contractors are given; budgets have also been very tightly squeezed because of Corona, it's hitting contractors pretty hard. As a 'buyer' of these services myself, full-stack JS dev contractors are in one of the most oversaturated parts of the mar…

Interesting. How is the market in London for frontend devs, specifically ones working in the React stack (plus some GraphQL)? I was in London last year and got the impression that it's a pretty lackluster market - high cost of living, average earning potential. I did some back of the napkin math and realized it only made sense if I worked remotely and occasionally visited London (once a month, twice a month maybe?).…

Pretty saturated as well, lots of FE folks looking for contracts at the moment.

Day rates of £400-1000 a day for FE devs were common before COVID, now I’d expect ~20% less than that but YMMV.

Remote and visiting occasional is getting a lot more common for contractors these days, so you could detonate it work.

Post reply on HN