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U.S. Postal Workers Were on the Front Lines Before. They Were Ignored

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Re: U.S. Postal Workers Were on the Front Lines Before. They Were Ignored

#151
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a reliable communications network is a public good, and cutting off millions of poor Americans from critical services is a despicable way of remediating whatever vague injustices the USPS is perceived to be committing against taxpayers.

If you want to give welfare to poor Americans give them welfare and let them pay the true price of their goods. I bet most of them would choose to keep the money and have postal service once a week, or every 2 weeks if they could keep the cash savings.

There's no reason we have to choose between those things. Network utility scales with connectivity. It doesn't make sense to optimize for profit when doing so triggers a race to the bottom for service all over the fringes of the network.

USPS lost $9 billion in 2019[1], so roughly $30 per American. Anyone who pays even one bill per month via mail would pay at least 4x that much at current private rates. I'm not inclined to believe privatization would bring those rates down much for rural areas.

Sure, if we assume we've implemented UBI and eradicated poverty or something then those prices aren't a big deal. But even then, what have we gained by privatizing? Private industries that provides critical services are either massively subsidized (agriculture, transportation - indirectly via roads) or massively unpopular and frequently monopolistic (telecommunications, health insurance). Even if a talented CEO could squeeze a few percentage points of efficiency out of this industry, it would come at the cost of misaligning incentives in perpetuity, and the government would still be responsible for keeping the industry afloat whenever the economy goes bad.

Or we could let them charge a few extra cents for postage, let them operate 5 days/week instead of 6, charge the wealthiest Americans a couple extra tax dollars each, and keep consistent service available at dirt-cheap prices for everyone everywhere.

[1] https://about.usps.com/what/financials/annual-reports/fy2019...

Re: U.S. Postal Workers Were on the Front Lines Before. They Were Ignored

#152
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a reliable communications network is a public good, and cutting off millions of poor Americans from critical services is a despicable way of remediating whatever vague injustices the USPS is perceived to be committing against taxpayers.

If you want to give welfare to poor Americans give them welfare and let them pay the true price of their goods. I bet most of them would choose to keep the money and have postal service once a week, or every 2 weeks if they could keep the cash savings.

Exactly. Why would anyone be opposed to once a week delivery if it meant balancing the budget?

Re: U.S. Postal Workers Were on the Front Lines Before. They Were Ignored

#153
post #2

Unrelated to this specific article: The USPS is a crucial part of the US infrastructure. The thought that we could loose it over mail in ballot voting is a sick joke.

Mail in voting is equivalent to electronic voting. The USPS is worthless in comparison to what we would lose.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&query=jakeogh%20mail&t...

Re: U.S. Postal Workers Were on the Front Lines Before. They Were Ignored

#154
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always puzzles me why this is the oft suggested answer. Surely the sane default should be to already not receive unnecessary spam? In the digital world, the general consensus seems to agree with this sentiment, I wonder why the same doesn't apply for the real world. If anyone wants your ads, they can sign up for it, delivering it to anyone else should be punishable by law.

The financial structure is very different. Email service providers deal with the costs imposed by spam. They wish to be rid of it. The USPS derives much of their revenue from direct mail advertising. They depend on it.

This argument is not convincing, if the postal service can't be sustainable on its own without sending spam, surely the right answer would be to address the problem at the root. Think of the time and effort wasted nationwide in producing, delivering and then subsequently throwing away this amount of advertising. Surely it would collectively be cheaper to simply not produce most of it to begin with?

Re: U.S. Postal Workers Were on the Front Lines Before. They Were Ignored

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the same can be said for roads, water, electricity, and any other utility. And it also points out that the one thing that is for-profit is completely unavailable in any modern form out here - internet and phone. Our options for internet are dial-up (35/mo, no download/upload cap as if that matters) or satellite (75/mo, 15gb up/down cap monthly). Phone has copper home phone options at 60/mo. Cell doesn't work.…

That's great, so bear the actual cost of your lifestyle and let the price ripple through the system. Maybe food needs to cost a tiny bit more. Would you be for a grocery store tax that kept groceries the same price everywhere? Irregardless of shipping and land costs? It costs a lot to run internet connectivity all over the place, if the town wanted to pay to run the cables it could, or a non-profit could, there's a w…

>That's great, so bear the actual cost of your lifestyle and let the price ripple through the system.

I don't set the prices of the commodities I sell. Those are set at a national/international level and make their way to the local grain elevator. For that to happen, it would, essentially, be a tax on your food to subsidize me living here to make the food.

Re: U.S. Postal Workers Were on the Front Lines Before. They Were Ignored

#156
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The financial structure is very different. Email service providers deal with the costs imposed by spam. They wish to be rid of it. The USPS derives much of their revenue from direct mail advertising. They depend on it.

This argument is not convincing, if the postal service can't be sustainable on its own without sending spam, surely the right answer would be to address the problem at the root. Think of the time and effort wasted nationwide in producing, delivering and then subsequently throwing away this amount of advertising. Surely it would collectively be cheaper to simply not produce most of it to begin with?

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Postal Workers Were on the Front Lines Before. They Were Ignored

#157
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not some secretive process.[1] [1] https://informeddelivery.usps.com/box/pages/intro/start.acti...

I meant more about the "secretive" part. The phrasing made it sound like it was more than just collecting and passing on the to/from data.

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Postal Workers Were on the Front Lines Before. They Were Ignored

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't be downvoted... you're expressing valid questions that should be understood. With issues like mail, voter-id, etc you really need to remember that there are 300+ million people in the United States, and most of the others that you know are like you. You gotta walk a mile in others' shoes. I come from a place in rural upstate NY where broadband is only available to about 75% of the population, the legacy…

Genuine question - how available is home phone service and DSL internet in that area? Email, and ability to load some official websites is the critical service, which doesn't need to be that fast. > Should my ability to keep my home be contingent on my phone service? No, ideally not just on phone service. But on something digital that is free and doesn't require any effort to keep it live over an extended period of t…

> I've just wondered a for a long time why so many official things still done primarily through mail.

Easy. Two reasons: universal service and no standard ID.

If you aren't homeless, you always have a physical address that can be delivered to. A physical address is a piece of the earth than can be proven to exist or not exist, and even audited by various means. "Virtual" services like phones and internet are not universal for many types of people. For a professional, access to the internet or mobile phone is very reliable. For many others, you are one missed payment or reload away from losing that number forever.

No standard ID is the other thing. There's no root of trust for humans, and no good way to link you to who you are. Biometrics are only available for limited use cases (mostly criminal), and almost all forms of "trust" (in the identity sense) are tied to physical locations or events. Your driver's license or passport (if you have them) is linked to the record of your birth, marriage (if your name changes), your place of residence, and one or more bills or other business records.

The system as it is has many flaws, but you can't fix it without a strategy. Getting rid of a service like the mail or monetizing it in a way that spikes the costs undermines many expected parts of life for almost no benefit.

Re: U.S. Postal Workers Were on the Front Lines Before. They Were Ignored

#159
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not some secretive process.[1] [1] https://informeddelivery.usps.com/box/pages/intro/start.acti...

I meant more about the "secretive" part. The phrasing made it sound like it was more than just collecting and passing on the to/from data.

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/04/us/monitoring-of-snail-ma...

Re: U.S. Postal Workers Were on the Front Lines Before. They Were Ignored

#160
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems unsubstantiated. Proof? Would love to learn more here.

It's not some secretive process.[1] [1] https://informeddelivery.usps.com/box/pages/intro/start.acti...

Yes, it is.
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