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Ask HN: How to rediscover the joy of programming?

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Re: Ask HN: How to rediscover the joy of programming?

#41
post #8
post #2

Programming is 1,000 room hotel of which we live in only one. I recommend you study different programming paradigms because in them we can find really interesting approaches to solve problems. For me those have been: - functional programming (with Haskell) - logic programming (prolog) - Constraint Programming with the excellent Coursera class on minizinc. Those paradigms made programming fun again for me . PS: I also…

What’s wrong with js?

Not OP, but I personally could not use JS, and would outright refuse to use, in production. It's fraught with headaches that seem trivial but drastically change control flow, == and === being my favourite example. Linters help, but it feels like a band-aid solution.

I've had good fun with JS in my own time (where else can you get a GLES window up in 3 lines of code?), and I've written my fair share of helper application that notify me of certain album releases. But I would never ship something using it (and in fact I generally switch to Dart if I get serious enough about a web project, another band-aid solution). It could be preference, or it could be the years of embedded programming expecting timely results with minimum overhead (make no mistake, a modern web browser is a hell of an overhead).

Re: Ask HN: How to rediscover the joy of programming?

#42
post #7
post #2

Programming is 1,000 room hotel of which we live in only one. I recommend you study different programming paradigms because in them we can find really interesting approaches to solve problems. For me those have been: - functional programming (with Haskell) - logic programming (prolog) - Constraint Programming with the excellent Coursera class on minizinc. Those paradigms made programming fun again for me . PS: I also…

What was it about JavaScript that wanted you to leave programming? I'm just curious.

As someone considering leaving the web development industry after 12 years:

JavaScript is a never ending grind.

Callbacks, then Bluebird, then Promises, then a sync await.

a new testing framework every six months. a new web framework every couple of years. aimless, massive changes to the language (classes in a prototyped language? Why not).

JavaScript then coffeescript then three versions of typescript. too many UI libraries to mention.

JavaScript on the server? the people making the most popular web framework abandoned it 5 years ago but who cares?!

paradigms that make no sense (react morphing from a UI library to the full app). a million ways to manage state.

then you have a few big players calling all the shots (FB, MS). I guess we use functional components now. Eurasia has always been at war with Oceana.

It’s tiring. I’ve spent my entire career doing this stuff; and I’m never quite good enough before The Next Big Thing comes along.

I know things change over time everywhere, but it’s hard to imagine anything moving faster with less purpose than the JS ecosystem.

(Apologies for typos and grammar; I’m on my phone)

Re: Ask HN: How to rediscover the joy of programming?

#43
The thing that drained the enjoyment out of it (and to be honest a lot of life in general) for me was being stressed at work.

When I left my full-time job (where I worked way too hard) to do consultancy I started to de-compress and it helped me enjoy life a lot more. If I won the lottery I would still be quite capable of not touching a computer for 6 months though.

Re: Ask HN: How to rediscover the joy of programming?

#44
post #19

My journey to rediscovery the joy of programming started at a local FreeCodeCamp meetup group. I simply showed up every meeting and got to know some of the regular students. I helped them with problems that were simple for me, but explaining concepts creatively to them was a very interesting experience. The students needed a project to show on their resume so I got together with them to have weekly sprints like a moc…

I really enjoy teaching and have been thinking of doing something similar for a while. The biggest hurdle for me is carving out some of my “decompression” time on weekends...

Re: Ask HN: How to rediscover the joy of programming?

#45
Burnout often occurs because who you imagine/want yourself to be is not the same person as how you actually identify yourself to be.

It can be the feeling of "I know I can do better than this, but I'm not doing better than this right now, so I'm frustrated with myself."

There is no quick easy fix. My only suggestion to you would be to: firstly, accept that this is crap situation to be in, secondly: that it is escapable, and thirdly: realize that to escape you have to return to your roots, and rebuild from there.

When you first discovered programming, it was fun and what you created only mattered you. You started here, so go back here. Do an ancient Advent of Code (https://adventofcode.com/), or the first few Euler Problems (https://projecteuler.net/). Do not share your solutions with anyone. The most important thing is that what you do is not important to anyone except yourself. This is your baseline.

Re: Ask HN: How to rediscover the joy of programming?

#46
post #8
post #2

Programming is 1,000 room hotel of which we live in only one. I recommend you study different programming paradigms because in them we can find really interesting approaches to solve problems. For me those have been: - functional programming (with Haskell) - logic programming (prolog) - Constraint Programming with the excellent Coursera class on minizinc. Those paradigms made programming fun again for me . PS: I also…

What’s wrong with js?

It's rushed half-finished edge case riddled language with awful tooling. Some of the issues are outlined here: https://blogtitle.github.io/lets-talk-about-javascript/

Of the many programming languages I have used over the last 20 years, there are several I prefer, several I would rather not use, but PHP and Javascript are the only two I refuse to ever touch again because they are so utterly unpleasant to write anything in.

It also makes my life as an end user miserable on the web on account of the gigantic gobs of program I have to download to make even simple websites work these days, when most could work just as well as a simple HTML page served from a server that didn't somehow manage to spin the fans on my powerful laptop just so it could show me some fancy font and I utterly resent the language, and the developers choice of it for forcing this on me.

Apart from all that, there's nothing wrong with Javascript at all.

Re: Ask HN: How to rediscover the joy of programming?

#47
I wasn't 20 years into my career when I did this (more like 10), but at one point I had a serious "lapse of faith" with regard to my career. I was working for a terrible company with an even worse manager and I was miserable. I didn't know if I wanted to be a programmer any more. I quit my job and didn't look for another one.

Instead, I wrote free software -- initially just for a month. I got up in the morning, had a shower and worked on whatever project seemed interesting to me at the time (which was actually the GNOME Corba ORB -- that's how long ago this was ;-) ). At first I was pretty unproductive (and I'm not sure I ever actually made a contribution... can't even remember). I watched the stock market go up and down on the TV and occasionally turned the channel for more educational content (I invented the "Teletubbies Drinking Game" -- Drink whenever they say "eh oh" and drink twice whenever they say "again!"... which is to say that I don't think I ever lasted an episode).

Anyway, one day I was having a shower and I had an idea about programming (I can't remember what it was). I ran out of the shower and started typing away. Every day after that I had a similar experience. It took me a week before I realised that I was so preoccupied that I often wasn't wearing any clothes. (Actual awkward conversation: I was chatting with a woman who was moving out of the apartment. She recognised me: "Oh you are that nice man who programs by the window every day. Such a shame I will miss that from now on"...)

After about 6 months of doing this, I realised that I loved programming. I hated my job. The hatred of my job so overwhelmed my natural love of programming that I got to hate it too. But, like a starving man, as soon as I had the time to get back to my passion, I was ravenous. After that, I was much more careful to take jobs that I liked. I often worked for incredibly low salaries just because I liked the people or I liked the project. I was also careful to save enough money so that I could always take a "sabbatical" -- just quit my job and spend half a year writing code that I wanted. I was single (despite/because of my proclivity for exhibitionist programming), so it was easier, but I think it can be made to work in a family setting too.

I think the best thing I can say is that when taking a job, it's important to find a win-win situation. I find that when I get in trouble it's because I end up doing things that I think are important for the company, but which I don't want to do. Often these are things that my management don't want me to do either, which leads to a bad relationship with the management. I usually think, "Oh this is crap! They are totally dropping this stuff on the floor. Someone has to clean up this mess" and then get trapped into doing lots of stuff that saves the company, but destroys my soul (and somehow makes me an enemy of many of the people around me). So instead, I just try to do the things that both my management and I want me to do. Usually there is more than enough stuff that I want to do that we can find a mutually beneficial overlap.

The most important point: I let the company burn down around me as I play my fiddle. Um... Maybe not the most apt analogy. But I hope you get the point. I only do the non-fun parts of my job, if I really get the impression that somebody wants me to do it! That makes such a massive difference, it's incredible (although I often make the same mistakes of the past, but I try to correct it). When the company is intent on flying into a wall at 1000 miles an hour, I don't stop it. I just start looking for another job ;-)

YMMV.

Re: Ask HN: How to rediscover the joy of programming?

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, though, some languages get it right: northrup@Topaz:~/Desktop$ perl -de1 Loading DB routines from perl5db.pl version 1.55 Editor support available. Enter h or 'h h' for help, or 'man perldebug' for more help. main::(-e:1): 1 DB say 0.1 + 0.2 0.3 […] northrup@Topaz:~$ csi CHICKEN (c) 2008-2019, The CHICKEN Team (c) 2000-2007, Felix L. Winkelmann Version 5.1.0 (rev 8e62f718) linux-unix-gnu-x86-64 [ 64bit…

Unless they're using an alternate exact representation for floats by default, that's just rounding them when printing.

That's a fair point about the Perl example, but Scheme and Common Lisp (including both Chicken and SBCL, last I checked) support (if not outright require) full numeric towers with rational number types, so these are indeed exact representations (unless you explicitly request binary floats for e.g. performance reasons) and not just rounding during printing.

There are lots of other examples of doing it "right" (using more suitable numeric types) over at https://0.30000000000000004.com/ (alongside a bunch of examples that, to your point, just round, or to the GP's point, just stick to binary floats).

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