U.S. Postal Workers Were on the Front Lines Before. They Were Ignored • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. Postal Workers Were on the Front Lines Before. They Were Ignored

#101

Post by chrisseaton » Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #97

chrisseaton wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the laws preventing UPS from delivering to extremely rural areas? Apparently it's literally illegal for anyone but USPS to put something in your mailbox https://blog.oup.com/2017/07/mailboxes-us-mail/ .

That’s not what I asked but okay. Also the reference is what looks to be on some persons blog post.

> That’s not what I asked but okay.

You asked what laws stopped them delivering mail to rural locations. You can't deliver mail anywhere, rural or otherwise, if you can't use the mailbox when you get there. That's the law you were asking about.

> Also the reference is what looks to be on some persons blog post.

Yes the blog explains the context around the law. Is this one better if you want to appeal to authority https://about.usps.com/news/state-releases/tx/2010/tx_2010_0...?

Re: U.S. Postal Workers Were on the Front Lines Before. They Were Ignored

#102

Post by mytherin » Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

curiousgeorgio wrote: post #18

cjsawyer wrote: post #2

Unrelated to this specific article: The USPS is a crucial part of the US infrastructure. The thought that we could loose it over mail in ballot voting is a sick joke.

> The USPS is a crucial part of the US infrastructure. Mail delivery and shipping are crucial, not the USPS. There are plenty of other private companies that can and do show the ability to do what the USPS does - only more efficiently (and without consistently losing money). At this point in history, there's no need for us to continue supporting the tax-subsidized[1] money pit that is the USPS. Yet another piece of e…

> Mail delivery and shipping are crucial, not the USPS. There are plenty of other private companies that can and do show the ability to do what the USPS does - only more efficiently

This is a completely false statement. Private shipping companies do not do what USPS does, and in fact private shipping companies often partly use USPS. See for example FedEx SmartPost [1].

Private shipping companies have the exact same problem that all private companies have: they only have the incentive for profit. That means that people that are not profitable will receive no service from them. For private shipping companies, that means people in rural areas will either be completely unable to get mail, or will need to pay ridiculous prices for mail (think >$20 for a letter).

The only reason Amazon and other online retailers offer free shipping in the entire US is because USPS is mandated by law to subsidize shipping to expensive rural areas. No other private shipping company can or will do this because it goes entirely against the motive of profit.

If USPS is out of the picture that means people in rural areas will not be able to receive mail anymore or will need to pay ridiculous rates for delivery and mail. The benefit of that is that people in cities might pay a few cents less on postage. Emphasis on might. The more likely reality is that shipping costs will go up for everyone and the profits made by only servicing people in cities will be privatized. A great win for the CEO of FedEx, but a loss for all other citizens of the US.

[1] https://www.reveelgroup.com/fedex-smartpost/

Re: U.S. Postal Workers Were on the Front Lines Before. They Were Ignored

#103

Post by dangrossman » Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

throwaway185205 wrote: post #59

yellowapple wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? USPS is the single largest parcel carrier in the US (dwarfing UPS and FedEx by package volume). That ain't even including the numerous packages that UPS and FedEx delegate to USPS for last-mile delivery (via SurePost and SmartPost, respectively). Hell, a lot of rural communities are entirely dependent on USPS for parcel delivery because they're outside of the service areas of other carriers. I don't know where…

> What? USPS is the single largest parcel carrier in the US They're the only unsolicited advertisement carrier in the US.

I just got an ad via FedEx from some "growth hacking" company. The main category of mail I get from USPS are bills and monthly statements, not ads, anyway. They also deliver most of my packages from online stores.

Re: U.S. Postal Workers Were on the Front Lines Before. They Were Ignored

#104

Post by Spooky23 » Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 9:29 PM UTC

cactus2093 wrote: post #27

cjsawyer wrote: post #2

Unrelated to this specific article: The USPS is a crucial part of the US infrastructure. The thought that we could loose it over mail in ballot voting is a sick joke.

This doesn't seem to be a common opinion, but I generally don't understand why USPS is critical infrastructure. Vote by mail is just about the only essential service they provide that I can think of, and that could potentially still be supported in other ways without USPS the other 364 days of the year. Many of the justifications I've come across of why mail is essential seem to center around transmission of informat…

You shouldn't be downvoted... you're expressing valid questions that should be understood. With issues like mail, voter-id, etc you really need to remember that there are 300+ million people in the United States, and most of the others that you know are like you. You gotta walk a mile in others' shoes.

I come from a place in rural upstate NY where broadband is only available to about 75% of the population, the legacy POTS system is being allowed to fail, and cellular service is available to about 50%. Should my former neighbors be cut off from functioning in modern society because they can't get mail?

Today, I own a home and have to pay property taxes and garbage bills. Should my ability to keep my home be contingent on my phone service? What if my phone carrier screw up and ports my number without my permission? What if I screw up, don't update my credit card and have service suspended?

The other alternative, public libraries, are also being starved of funding in many areas.

USPS may deserve to decline or evolve. But killing it in the middle of a crisis for stupid political reasons is not a strategy.

Re: U.S. Postal Workers Were on the Front Lines Before. They Were Ignored

#105

Post by mumbisChungo » Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 9:29 PM UTC

USPS makes Canada Post look like a Bond villain by comparison.

Re: U.S. Postal Workers Were on the Front Lines Before. They Were Ignored

#106

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 9:30 PM UTC

curiousgeorgio wrote: post #18

cjsawyer wrote: post #2

Unrelated to this specific article: The USPS is a crucial part of the US infrastructure. The thought that we could loose it over mail in ballot voting is a sick joke.

> The USPS is a crucial part of the US infrastructure. Mail delivery and shipping are crucial, not the USPS. There are plenty of other private companies that can and do show the ability to do what the USPS does - only more efficiently (and without consistently losing money). At this point in history, there's no need for us to continue supporting the tax-subsidized[1] money pit that is the USPS. Yet another piece of e…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Postal Workers Were on the Front Lines Before. They Were Ignored

#107

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 9:30 PM UTC

vlan0 wrote: post #73

curiousgeorgio wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The USPS is a crucial part of the US infrastructure. Mail delivery and shipping are crucial, not the USPS. There are plenty of other private companies that can and do show the ability to do what the USPS does - only more efficiently (and without consistently losing money). At this point in history, there's no need for us to continue supporting the tax-subsidized[1] money pit that is the USPS. Yet another piece of e…

Something tells me for-profit companies will not be as generous to those less fortunate than us. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2002/07/08/02-1690...

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Postal Workers Were on the Front Lines Before. They Were Ignored

#108

Post by qppo » Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 9:31 PM UTC

cactus2093 wrote: post #27

cjsawyer wrote: post #2

Unrelated to this specific article: The USPS is a crucial part of the US infrastructure. The thought that we could loose it over mail in ballot voting is a sick joke.

This doesn't seem to be a common opinion, but I generally don't understand why USPS is critical infrastructure. Vote by mail is just about the only essential service they provide that I can think of, and that could potentially still be supported in other ways without USPS the other 364 days of the year. Many of the justifications I've come across of why mail is essential seem to center around transmission of informat…

>I generally don't understand why USPS is critical infrastructure

Private citizens and businesses need to get physical things from point A to point B regardless of where point A and B are in the country. It should be self evident that the infrastructure needed to do that is critical. As for whether or not the USPS is the best way to do that, there's been some constitutional arguments and debate that's taken place over the last 250 years.

> How is an essential government service entirely ad-supported like USPS is?

Because Republicans hate taxes and unions, and the USPS is one of the largest public sector unions that they can't get rid of (due to aforementioned Constitutional requirements) so they force the USPS to over-fund themselves without taxes.

>Imagine if the fire department made you watch some ads after they put out your fire.

Imagine if Congress told fire departments across the country that they weren't allowed to take tax dollars to fund themselves.

Re: U.S. Postal Workers Were on the Front Lines Before. They Were Ignored

#109

Post by undersuit » Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 9:31 PM UTC

cactus2093 wrote: post #61

eranima wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because not everyone can afford internet access?

It's harder to afford stable housing with a stable mailing address than it is to afford internet access. And those without internet access can go to public libraries or even get free public wifi in many cities. Even some homeless shelters provide wifi now, which is much easier for them than providing mail service. Technically, I think those without a permanent address can register to still receive mail at a post offi…

>It's harder to afford stable housing with a stable mailing address than it is to afford internet access.

Gotta disagree. You aren't required to have stable housing to have a stable mailing address. The USPS provides services to all.

https://faq.usps.com/s/article/Is-there-mail-service-for-the...

Re: U.S. Postal Workers Were on the Front Lines Before. They Were Ignored

#110

Post by throwaway185205 » Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 9:31 PM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #28

throwaway185205 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USPS functions almost exclusively to deliver unsolicited advertisements. Its "delivery confirmation" is outright fraud.

I'd like to see some data on this. I know a lot of small businesses that rely heavily on USPS Priority flat rate for shipping goods.

Do you, personally, more often receive packages, or junk mail?

Extrapolate.