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IBM will offer free COBOL training

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221–230 of 235 posts

Re: IBM will offer free COBOL training

#221

From the article: * State unemployment agencies are notoriously underfunded* And there’s the problem summarized in less than a single sentence. Yes, they need help, but it’s the same kind of “help” as in “I want a BMW but I only have a dollar, please help” There would be a ton more COBOL coders if companies paid the equivalent of FANG companies - I say this as a former COBOL coder myself

I remember reading some years ago that there are or were schools in India teaching COBOL because of the demand for maintenance programmers and the aging of US programmers who did that sort of thing in the 1970s. I wonder if that is still a thing.

They probably had their own Banking industry in mind. This was in Argentina so YMMV. Back in 2010 i had friends in university looking for internships and first jobs and COBOL was a real prospect. A friend took a deal with accenture where they would give you a 2 month-ish course and then send you to consult for banks. I remember the whole "COBOL devs are retiring! salaries are gonna be huge!" which was likely to be true for the agency's rate but didn't trickle down to coders, they used to make as much as the lower rung of IT (QA tester, etc). Later in life I worked at a bank and met the fabled close to retirement AS400/Cobol developer. He didn't make more than any ssr developer with a modern stack in demand.

Re: IBM will offer free COBOL training

#222
post #94
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked with a guy like this. He bragged he was the only one that knew the entire legacy codebase and he only shared parts with colleagues on his pretty sizable team to ensure he had a job and fat salary for life. The the multinational decides a change in direction and fired the entire office, relocating it for regional diversification (this was not offshoring, spreading the work out across multiple teams). This was…

Indeed, the word wizard was perhaps ill-chosen. These guys know this particular codebase, in all it's hairy glory, but not much else.

I don't think ill-chosen. In their eyes, they are wizards.

Re: IBM will offer free COBOL training

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The New York State Civil Service exams for IT positions (meaning anything involving software development as well as other stuff) still have a flow chart section. I actually quit the interview process with an insurance company a year or two ago after they wanted me to take a test involving reading flow charts, but now I'm in the position of having to pass something similar if I want to get promoted. However, I don't t…

I've found that flowcharts are enormously helpful for software design and communicating the design decided upon. Maybe in your role you don't have a need to communicate how software should be written?

I like to make hierarchical text outlines.

I feel like once you need a general graph sort of structure, you're too far down the road to spaghetti and/or excessive detail.

Re: IBM will offer free COBOL training

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention GOTO. If your one of the people who hyperventilates when you see a goto because you learned that it was considered harmful in programmer school then Cobol might not be for you. ;) You might be surprised about the comments though - depending on the age of the codebase. Mainframes were rented back in the day, you paid by resources consumed, terminal time was precious, and mainframes were often turned off…

The New York State Civil Service exams for IT positions (meaning anything involving software development as well as other stuff) still have a flow chart section. I actually quit the interview process with an insurance company a year or two ago after they wanted me to take a test involving reading flow charts, but now I'm in the position of having to pass something similar if I want to get promoted. However, I don't t…

I make flowcharts all the time. I find them particularly useful for showing stakeholders how different pieces of an integration project work together. Usually the moving parts are pretty coarsely grained, like an ETL job or something that writes out a file and something else that picks it up. IMHO, your 70s-era flow chart diagram is pretty good at that kind of stuff.

Re: IBM will offer free COBOL training

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention GOTO. If your one of the people who hyperventilates when you see a goto because you learned that it was considered harmful in programmer school then Cobol might not be for you. ;) You might be surprised about the comments though - depending on the age of the codebase. Mainframes were rented back in the day, you paid by resources consumed, terminal time was precious, and mainframes were often turned off…

I doubt that mainframes where turned on and off every day even later with super mini's we left them powered up

Many sites had operations plan that involved weekly or biweekly "IPLs" done on weekends.

Re: IBM will offer free COBOL training

#226
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C gotos are scoped to the function, making them fairly reasonable to use. COBOL and FORTRAN have global gotos.

Real programmers use INTERCAL's COME FROM

Oh lord, it's been a while since the last time I've heard someone mention INTERCAL.

Re: IBM will offer free COBOL training

#227
post #32

What other languages can we expect to see a similar surge in demand? FORTRAN? In the data analysis space my bet is on SAS

Fortran (standardized without caps for at least the last couple decades) is current to the 2018 release. I haven't come across anybody who cares or is using it. You do eventually see a lot of older code in it in symbolic and algebraic maths in the deeper code bases still because the algorithms are complex and nobody really wants to touch someone else work if it can still be wrapped in something like R or Python and i…

The modern Fortran (2008-2018) is indeed used actively, although less than 40 years ago, as there are many rivals now. Just check out the Fortran GitHub projects.

Re: IBM will offer free COBOL training

#228
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the thing about Fortran, to circle back to your question, is that it isn't common in critical infrastructure.

I work at a place that writes new Fortran code today. Also c++, Python, Julia. Scientists will choose the least impedance mismatch to a library, some needed data set, or their brain.

Modern Fortran is amazing. Force your company to move to Fortran 2008 and beyond. A good reference book is Modern Fortran Explained: Incorporating Fortran 2018.

Re: IBM will offer free COBOL training

#229
post #21

It's a trap. The problem with those old codebases that governments, hospitals, big businesses are struggling with is not really the language, it's the engineering practices of that time with regards to constraints of old technology. The language is not the problem - lack of comments, bad variable naming, bad structure (little or no procedures or readability), and just sheer volume of it, is. It would be very interest…

It always mess up by introduce not the mouse or any technical things. But your keyword introduce ...

What do you think to get the proposal off the ground. Just reimplement granddad system is not it I am afraid.

Saw that so many times ...

Re: IBM will offer free COBOL training

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real programmers use INTERCAL's COME FROM

Oh lord, it's been a while since the last time I've heard someone mention INTERCAL.

That language with no pronounceable acronym remains an important teaching tool for programming language learning and design.
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