Live data from Hacker News

“Samsung Rising” goes deep on corruption, chaebols, and corporate chaos

theverge.com

11–20 of 38 posts

Re: “Samsung Rising” goes deep on corruption, chaebols, and corporate chaos

#11

Okay, as a Korean, I would just like to chime in and say that Samsung is much more than a smartphone/digital gadget company. It’s a very big company. It not only produces displays and semiconductors, it also makes home appliances, it builds apartments, it runs hotels, it runs hospitals, it issues credit cards and runs insurance, etc... which means that the Galaxy Note 7 crisis is pretty much nothing to that gigantic…

Can you go more into why you aren’t positive about Samsung?

Not who you're responding to, but for just one possible reason look at Lee Jae-Yong. He's the head of Samsung and was arrested in 2017 for bribery, embezzlement, etc. Chaebols (name for families that run these mega-companies) are both respected for success and disliked for corruption as I understand it.

While there are these mega-companies in RoK and Japan that have especially "close" relationships with governments, I don't think it's that dissimilar from the revolving door of lobbyists/board members/politicians in the US. Citizens in the US are similarly critical of corruption at this level in pharma, tobacco, military, etc.

At the same time, these companies are all responsible to varying degrees for the success of the economy and first-world lifestyle in the US, Japan, RoK. So you can't just want them not to exist either.

Re: “Samsung Rising” goes deep on corruption, chaebols, and corporate chaos

#12

Okay, as a Korean, I would just like to chime in and say that Samsung is much more than a smartphone/digital gadget company. It’s a very big company. It not only produces displays and semiconductors, it also makes home appliances, it builds apartments, it runs hotels, it runs hospitals, it issues credit cards and runs insurance, etc... which means that the Galaxy Note 7 crisis is pretty much nothing to that gigantic…

Can you go more into why you aren’t positive about Samsung?

Corruption, bribing, tax-evasion, spying, fraud, sabotage

Re: “Samsung Rising” goes deep on corruption, chaebols, and corporate chaos

#13
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Samsung Electronics is a fairly big company (60% of total Samsung AFAIR), but itself has 147 departments. If I remember correctly, the digital gadget department isn’t that big - the biggest ones are the semiconductor one and the display one. And still the digital gadget department could handle the Note 7 callback on it’s own, if I recall correctly, so I can’t really call it a ‘crisis’ for Samsung. Edit: Turns o…

Samsung Group is not the whole of "Samsung," and the whole Samsung is not the whole of Lee's family holdings. For example, Dongil is another big industrial, and engineering group coexisting completely in parallel to Samsung, but they been buying and selling businesses from Lee's family as far as record goes.

Other well-known companies run by the Lee family include CJ and Shinsegae.

CJ is the largest producer of sugar and flour in Korea, and they also sell every kind of processed and frozen foods. They also own the largest courier service in Korea, the largest cinema chain and film studio, several restaurant and coffee brands, a chain of cosmetics stores, biomedical services, and a dozen cable channels. They literally supply the whole country with both panem and circenses, and they deliver to your doorstep. It's vertical integration at its finest.

Shinsegae is a retail giant. They own a chain of department stores as well as the e-mart shopping mall. The latter has sprouted its own chain of Costco-like discount stores and convenience stores.

If you ever wondered who owns the "CU" brand of convenience stores that are ubiquitous in Korea, they are in-laws of the founder of Samsung. The same family owns the JoongAng Ilbo newspaper, which together with the JTBC news channel comprise the second largest media conglomerate after CJ. Oh, and they also own the third largest cinema chain in Korea.

The Lee family is also into furniture, paper, you name it. They used to make cars and planes, too.

All these companies aren't always on friendly terms with one another, as some of them have split from Samsung decades ago and compete with one another. But together they control such a huge portion of the country's commerce, news, and entertainment that the phrase "Republic of Samsung" comes up whenever a member of the Lee family is accused of wrongdoing.

Re: “Samsung Rising” goes deep on corruption, chaebols, and corporate chaos

#14

Okay, as a Korean, I would just like to chime in and say that Samsung is much more than a smartphone/digital gadget company. It’s a very big company. It not only produces displays and semiconductors, it also makes home appliances, it builds apartments, it runs hotels, it runs hospitals, it issues credit cards and runs insurance, etc... which means that the Galaxy Note 7 crisis is pretty much nothing to that gigantic…

Samsung Electronics is huge on its own (when I worked there, I think it made more money than all the other companies of the group combined). Of course, the Note 7 crisis was fairly small, even within the scale of the mobile division, employees still got their 50% profit sharing bonus that year. But it still tells you a lot about the kind of pressure there is on internal teams and external suppliers.

A few years ago, annual profit of Samsung Electronics was greater than the combined profit of top 7 or 8 (?) Japanese electronic firms. Including Sony.

Re: “Samsung Rising” goes deep on corruption, chaebols, and corporate chaos

#15

Not all countries have the concept of a professional management class. In Asia and India, the family owners/founders typically run the company, so when you talk about corruption or nepotism, well, it's their family company. You can even see that on a large scale, with Huawei's CFO being the niece of the founder (who is PLA.)

> with Huawei's CFO being the niece of the founder (who is PLA.)

I believe she's not the niece, but the daughter? I only know this because this was big news in Canada.

Re: “Samsung Rising” goes deep on corruption, chaebols, and corporate chaos

#16

> I’ve met hundreds and hundreds of very talented Samsung executives [...] people who are highly educated, highly competent. They know what they’re doing. They know both, say, the guts of a smartphone in addition to what business decisions need to be made to improve their company. And I’ve always gotten the impression that they can run the show themselves, that there’s really not much of a need this far into their co…

Having a family at the top of a corporation does usually lead to the firm operating with long term vision more consistently.

Yes, if a Chaebol style leadership was in Boeing, MD corporate leadership wouldn't have gotten the chance to ruin Boing. We all know that the take over of Boing by MD leadership is why we have 737 Max.

I am sure there are many many hedge funds that would love to asset strip Samsung or any other chaebol of S. Korea.

Re: “Samsung Rising” goes deep on corruption, chaebols, and corporate chaos

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you go more into why you aren’t positive about Samsung?

Not who you're responding to, but for just one possible reason look at Lee Jae-Yong. He's the head of Samsung and was arrested in 2017 for bribery, embezzlement, etc. Chaebols (name for families that run these mega-companies) are both respected for success and disliked for corruption as I understand it. While there are these mega-companies in RoK and Japan that have especially "close" relationships with governments,…

Keiretsu-type groups that do everything in-house can prevent whole business sectors from emerging.

In Japan the relative lack of independent software companies have been attributed to Keiretsu structure. Software development was just in-house activity to serve established product divisions. It was not seen as business to be sold independently. For example, Toyota made whole integrated CAD/CAM/CAE system called 'TOGO' in the late 90s.

As a result Japan has been mostly no-show in software business outside console games. Software they develop is sold inside hardware.

Re: “Samsung Rising” goes deep on corruption, chaebols, and corporate chaos

#18

Okay, as a Korean, I would just like to chime in and say that Samsung is much more than a smartphone/digital gadget company. It’s a very big company. It not only produces displays and semiconductors, it also makes home appliances, it builds apartments, it runs hotels, it runs hospitals, it issues credit cards and runs insurance, etc... which means that the Galaxy Note 7 crisis is pretty much nothing to that gigantic…

Can you go more into why you aren’t positive about Samsung?

They are like Apple. Lots of marketing a medium quality product but charging luxury pricing.

They do this from TV, to smart phones, to SSD, to appliances.

They are on my "no buy" list.

Re: “Samsung Rising” goes deep on corruption, chaebols, and corporate chaos

#19
1. Lobbying

Bribery (Korea) | Lobbyist (US)

S. Korea has no concept called lobbyist. Definitely no official lobbying firms exist. So when a company or trade association wants something, it inevitably turns into something like bribery.

2. Dollar and oil

Won (Korea) | Dollar (US)

To be able to exist as a self determining nation in modern world, you need oil. And you need a lot of oil if you want an industry and provide a decent living standard. And oil is usually sold when buyer pays with with US Dollar. US can just run printing presses harder if more $ is needed. And still keep buying oil with no issue. S. Korea doesn't have such a luxury. And S. Korea has to keep earning $ in order to be able to defend their nation (both physically and to keep out undue influence) from Russia/China/Japan/NorthKorea. And this is why those firms who can bring in more dollars are valued in S. Korea. It's a matter of national survival.

The last time Korea wasn't able to defend itself, the royal family that had been ruling the kingdom for 500+ years were literally tossed out to the street. Empress Myeongseong was killed in court by Japanese backed thugs, and her body was burned and buried unceremoniously.

And the Japanese occupation led to the nation being split in two. A kingdom nation that had existed with same boundary for 500+ years. Much longer than Germany.

And this led to the Korean war, war that brought a civil war to Korea that is probably more devastating comparatively than the Civil War of US.

All because the nation couldn't pay for the things (people, material, technology) needed to defend itself in 1910.

Even the much praised great preparedness against covid-19 in S. Korea was possible because firms brought in $ which meant more tax revenue for the S. Korean govt to use to pay for everything that is needed.

Re: “Samsung Rising” goes deep on corruption, chaebols, and corporate chaos

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you go more into why you aren’t positive about Samsung?

They are like Apple. Lots of marketing a medium quality product but charging luxury pricing. They do this from TV, to smart phones, to SSD, to appliances. They are on my "no buy" list.

They aren't like apple more Like GE they do everything. The sell appliances. They sell you life insurance. They do construction. They do oil and gas. They sell cars.
Post reply on HN