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Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

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Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#61

Post by watwut »

nabla9 wrote: post #38
battery_cowboy wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with this sentiment and I believe it's based on a big lie, but here's what some of the "average" Americans might think: "I'm an American, my ancestors for generations have pioneered the frontier and could only rely on themselves. I don't like the idea of helping some lazy bum get their art degree on my dime, so I'm against free college. I'm a working man, and my son will be too, or he'll get a degree as…

This is basically agricultural era thinking peppered with laissez-faire ideology. In 1700-hundreads you could drop average household with some seeds and few tools into the forest and they would go on. If there was village around with 50-100 people their productivity would probably double. Connected to organized state and trade it might increase even more. Today >95% of the value from work comes from the infrastructur…

That being said, in 1700-hundreads they still depended on army. And the interdependence with other households was great too. The was reasons back then for people to bundle themselves into small cities - survival on you own would be quite hard.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#62

Post by [deleted] »

fastball wrote: post #41
battery_cowboy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly you're not arguing in good faith, since you also didn't know at that time where the commenter was from, so have a good night and continue to fear that your race is being threatened or something like that.

I'm not arguing in good faith? Your point was that using national stats was inaccurate as GP could've been in a state with a lower proportion of whites. However, due to how averages work, it was just as likely that GP was located in a state with a higher proportion of whites than the national average. Then, when I actually bothered to check GP's profile and found out that apparently GP works at a college in Virginia…

[deleted]

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#63

Post by firebacon »

mettamage wrote: post #45
firebacon wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other difference of course is that in Germany, only a fairly small proportion of high school students is even allowed to go to Uni. People that were not placed into Gymnasium at age 8 are set on a course where, once they turn 18, do not get to go free Uni; they simply are not allowed to go to Uni at all! Also the problem of cost of living while studying isn't exactly trivial. Accommodation, food and participating…

In The Netherlands education is cheap (compared to the US) and there's a test that you're allowed to take when you're 21. If you pass that test, then you can study any undergraduate degree that you want. I know this is the case for Dutch citizens, not sure about other nationalities. The reason I'm writing about this is because this test is not well-known at all. I found it by Googling when I was a student, for fun. A…

In Germany there are, as far as I know, also a number of ways to get an exception. The normal way to attend Uni if you did not get the right Abitur from your high school however is to simply repeat high school from age 18 to ~21. This is called "Zweiter Bildungsweg" (Second Path to Education).

There is the colloquium doctum in the Netherlands, but you're still at a relative disadvantage if you're not put on the right track (VWO) as a child. So while the Dutch do a lot of things much better than the Germans, I think this one is only marginally improved.

Also cost of living in the Netherlands is far from cheap and as far as I know the Uni doesn't really help with that. So I'm still not sure how one would go about completing five or six years of full-time studies here without any financial assistance, either from their parents or by taking out a loan?

At the end of the day, it's always possible to go to Uni somehow, even if you had the bad luck to get sorted into the wrong bucket as a child. But it obviously takes much more effort than would have been required if you were placed in the right high school from the start. And even once you are admitted to Uni, not having a steady stream of passive income puts you at a huge disadvantage compared to most of the other students that do have it.

So my point is that, even in Europe, having wealthy and well-educated parents still puts you at a huge advantage when it comes to education. It's not exactly a solved problem here either.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#64

Post by DeathArrow »

aantix wrote: post #37
martin_a wrote: post #14

One can only shake his head when you hear about how things work in America. Why are you so hostile against each other and/or the weaker/younger/non-wealthy people? In most of Europe, education is free. You'll obviously have to take care of your own cost of living, but there are no real fees where you come out of your education and have 100k in debt. Why do things in America work so different? It's not (yet) a third w…

Because we don’t want to pay 50% in taxes.

No need to spend 50% in taxes for free public education. Just spend money for knowledge, not for politics. Don't give any money tu bureaucrats and diversocrats.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#66

Post by _v7gu »

drpgq wrote: post #40
firebacon wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other difference of course is that in Germany, only a fairly small proportion of high school students is even allowed to go to Uni. People that were not placed into Gymnasium at age 8 are set on a course where, once they turn 18, do not get to go free Uni; they simply are not allowed to go to Uni at all! Also the problem of cost of living while studying isn't exactly trivial. Accommodation, food and participating…

"People that were not placed into Gymnasium at age 8 are set on a course where, once they turn 18, do not get to go free Uni; they simply are not allowed to go to Uni at all!" I lived and worked in Germany and eventually moved back to Canada. When I would hear people talk about how university here should be free like Germany I would often think, well if university was like in Germany, you might not be going, but not…

Seeing the quality and attitudes of the students, I don't think having limited access to university would be a bad thing.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#67

Post by DeathArrow »

jimhefferon wrote: post #5

The article seemed to me to be a mix of two things, railing against the costs (blamed on the rise of administrators), and railing against the existence of diversity administrators. I'm a professor employed at my present institution, a small liberal arts school, since 1990. I am not an administrator of any kind, don't read the Chronicle , and don't understand where all the money goes. I will say though, that when I st…

>But today a good chunk, 40% maybe, of the student body is, to my eye, nonwhite. I don't know how much of that can be ascribed to the diversity officer but it is IMHO a very good thing.

You can do better by rejecting all whites, asians. You can allow them to donate though, so you have more money for diversity programs.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#68

Post by battery_cowboy »

fastball wrote: post #41
battery_cowboy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly you're not arguing in good faith, since you also didn't know at that time where the commenter was from, so have a good night and continue to fear that your race is being threatened or something like that.

I'm not arguing in good faith? Your point was that using national stats was inaccurate as GP could've been in a state with a lower proportion of whites. However, due to how averages work, it was just as likely that GP was located in a state with a higher proportion of whites than the national average. Then, when I actually bothered to check GP's profile and found out that apparently GP works at a college in Virginia…

I don't know man, lots of other people agreed with me and you seem to have several low voted comments defending yourself, seems like you're the one who may need to reflect. I'm not going to argue any further, though, I'm comfortable with my position and I'd rather not waste my time with you.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#69

Post by liveoneggs »

> ever more marginal students who stand little chance of graduating

> Before their inevitable withdrawal...

> ...even larger pool of likely dropouts...

rambling mishmash of concepts and overt racism gets in the way of complaining about tuition and crass lack of support for students during COVID here. Oh well.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#70

Post by battery_cowboy »

watwut wrote: post #61
nabla9 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is basically agricultural era thinking peppered with laissez-faire ideology. In 1700-hundreads you could drop average household with some seeds and few tools into the forest and they would go on. If there was village around with 50-100 people their productivity would probably double. Connected to organized state and trade it might increase even more. Today >95% of the value from work comes from the infrastructur…

That being said, in 1700-hundreads they still depended on army. And the interdependence with other households was great too. The was reasons back then for people to bundle themselves into small cities - survival on you own would be quite hard.

That's the big lie: that there ever were more than a small handful of actual frontiersman, most people lived in civilization, but the people in power want you to believe you come from a long line of bootstrappers. In reality, we've all been interdependent for hundreds and thousands of years, being ground down by the elite.
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