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Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

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Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#131

Post by FireBeyond »

toomim wrote: post #70
sv9 wrote: post #67

I'm consistently amazed by HN's ability to take the most meaningless, inconsequential part of an article (the scroll behavior, the whitespace, the usage of the word "bricked"), and nitpick it to hell and back instead of actually discussing the article. Bravo.

Well, maybe it's because the article is hyping itself up in order to get more attention than its content justifies. As a result, some large percentage of readers are let down by the actual content, and think it wasn't worth reading, let alone commenting on.

> to get more attention than its content justifies

That your Mac can get to the point by an Apple OS update that you need to enter recovery mode? (Even as someone who is exclusively Apple, I have seen the mockery Microsoft has endured for similar).

Or worse, to the point that unless you have access to a spare Mac or the _currently closed_ Apple stores, you are shit out of luck?

"Eh, no big deal, not worth reading or commenting on".

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#132

Post by FireBeyond »

baryphonic wrote: post #59

This is interesting. I sat down at my machine on Thursday morning, and it was entirely unresponsive. It had warned me about installing updates the previous evening, but I've done this many times without an issue, and regardless, they are always complete by morning. I waited a minute or two for any sign of life (beyond the fans running), and then held power. I heard the unpleasant sound of the fans spinning up to high…

For added irony, my Hackintosh installed the update without missing a beat.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#133

Post by microtonal »

Legogris wrote: post #75
gregmac wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Bricked" is relative, depending on your skill level. For some consumers, if recovery mode doesn't work that might be the end of line. However, there are more advanced users that can access the storage via another system and fix it there, hook up via serial port or JTAG and flash new firmware, or even desolder and replace chips. On the far other end of the spectrum, there's going to be people that consider "doesn't s…

Going with the line being drawn at hardware, the practical difference for the end-user would be "can the Apple store fix it for me while I wait"

If the Apple store is open and not closed during a world-wide pandemic.

In this case, you can probably recover through the DFU mode and reinstalling Bridge OS. But this requires another Mac, which some people may not have, and at least some tech know-how.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#134

Post by diebeforei485 »

gns24 wrote: post #111
hanche wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even a supposedly sleeping Mac will wake up from time to time, doing exactly what I don’t know. But I consistently see it in the logs.

It will sync email and other things so that everything is already downloaded when you wake it up. See https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204032

> Mobile Device Management can remotely lock and wipe your Mac.

I appreciate the transparency here. Outside of API documentation, a lot of plain-language information doesn't go in-depth enough about MDM capabilities.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#135

Post by K0SM0S »

copperx wrote: post #104
__init wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Originally, "the device is bricked" meant that the device was about as useful as a brick, i.e. it had no useful functionality left couldn't be recovered at all. However, as the parent points out, it's been increasingly misused.

I wonder what the replacement term will be. Probably "hard bricked"?

Hard / soft bricked is already conventional for phones and consoles (most mainstream products, unsurprisingly).

I kinda like "cold bricked" personally.

- soft: need some sysadmin mojo, USB adb etc.

- hard: can be fixed with soldering, physical repair of sorts.

- cold: will never again work even if you're Louis Rossman (maybe as a ship of theseus). Think CPU fried.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#136

Post by BoorishBears »

irjustin wrote: post #47
gregmac wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Bricked" is relative, depending on your skill level. For some consumers, if recovery mode doesn't work that might be the end of line. However, there are more advanced users that can access the storage via another system and fix it there, hook up via serial port or JTAG and flash new firmware, or even desolder and replace chips. On the far other end of the spectrum, there's going to be people that consider "doesn't s…

Granted there's no formal definition of "bricked" it usually means a hardware requirement to restore functionality. I'd like to keep it this way even to the general lay person. Because if you need hardware the barrier to entry goes up significantly. Agreed that 'bricked' is not the right term here.

The informal definition I’ve always seen is, it’s about as useful as a brick until you physically open up the case and fix it one way or another.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#137

Post by bryanrasmussen »

tmh88j wrote: post #62
gregmac wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Bricked" is relative, depending on your skill level. For some consumers, if recovery mode doesn't work that might be the end of line. However, there are more advanced users that can access the storage via another system and fix it there, hook up via serial port or JTAG and flash new firmware, or even desolder and replace chips. On the far other end of the spectrum, there's going to be people that consider "doesn't s…

>"Bricked" is relative, depending on your skill level. >For some consumers, if recovery mode doesn't work that might be the end of line. If you want to go by that rule, for a large number of people simply getting a virus would mean their computer is bricked. I think it's safe to assume "bricked" means it's a hardware level issue.

I guess I'd go with "bricked means the device is no longer usable, due to some problem the cause of which lies with the manufacturer", so most often devices are bricked because of hardware issues because manufacturer software issues are generally recoverable from.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#138

Post by hanche »

gns24 wrote: post #111
hanche wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even a supposedly sleeping Mac will wake up from time to time, doing exactly what I don’t know. But I consistently see it in the logs.

It will sync email and other things so that everything is already downloaded when you wake it up. See https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204032

Ah, thanks. That jogged my memory. I did turn off power nap a long time ago, but my laptop still kept waking up at night anyhow. But I just checked, and now it seems to work as advertised.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#139

Post by tmh88j »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #137
tmh88j wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Bricked" is relative, depending on your skill level. >For some consumers, if recovery mode doesn't work that might be the end of line. If you want to go by that rule, for a large number of people simply getting a virus would mean their computer is bricked. I think it's safe to assume "bricked" means it's a hardware level issue.

I guess I'd go with "bricked means the device is no longer usable, due to some problem the cause of which lies with the manufacturer", so most often devices are bricked because of hardware issues because manufacturer software issues are generally recoverable from.

Sure, but this is in the context of Macbook Pro's which can be fixed by someone with a bit of technical prowess, or literally anyone if you bring to to an Apple store. They're not locked down by hardware and unable to be restored like the Sonos smart speakers.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51768574

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#140

Post by K0SM0S »

FireBeyond wrote: post #131
toomim wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, maybe it's because the article is hyping itself up in order to get more attention than its content justifies. As a result, some large percentage of readers are let down by the actual content, and think it wasn't worth reading, let alone commenting on.

> to get more attention than its content justifies That your Mac can get to the point by an Apple OS update that you need to enter recovery mode? (Even as someone who is exclusively Apple, I have seen the mockery Microsoft has endured for similar). Or worse, to the point that unless you have access to a spare Mac or the _currently closed_ Apple stores, you are shit out of luck? "Eh, no big deal, not worth reading or…

I'd go with the fact that Apple has always been a little finicky, but initially quite fixable; then it became more and more locked down and users had to accept that fact: some left, some stayed. Nowadays pretty much nobody around here is surprised by the shenanigans you may have to go through on Apple platforms outside of the core mainstream experience.

The fact that an OS update can brick a device is a non-event, it's happened before and will happen again. Apple is not perfect, no one is. They do a pretty good job most of the time, comparatively¹.

The fact that in the case of Apple you have to suffer the aforementioned shenanigans to maybe solve the problem is, well, coincidental. It's not an event in itself either.

Note this is why production machines in professional environments usually wait a few weeks-months to update. Also why security updates are generally offered on their own (shouldn't wait to install those).

____

1: Note that, I personally can't stand being at the mercy of 1 corporation so I took matters in my own hands and run Linux: it rarely fails. When it does, it's usually my fault, so I can assign blame, learn my lesson and move on. Otherwise, I'd have to accept that every so often, a proprietary vendor update may brick the device.

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