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Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

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Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#71
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Granted there's no formal definition of "bricked" it usually means a hardware requirement to restore functionality. I'd like to keep it this way even to the general lay person. Because if you need hardware the barrier to entry goes up significantly. Agreed that 'bricked' is not the right term here.

> Granted there's no formal definition of "bricked" it usually means a hardware requirement to restore functionality. From Dictionary.app that comes standard with the Mac: "a smartphone or other electronic device that has completely ceased to function"

Dictionary definitions are not formal definitions, they are attempts to capture usage. And they are almost invariably approximations except when explicitly specifying otherwise, and outside of the the more lavish of the unabridged dictionaries are also almost in invariably simplified, both in the number of definitions of any term presented and often the individual definitions, for brevity at the expense of accuracy.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#72

It's not "bricked" if you can fix it in Recovery Mode. Still bad that it's happening, but the term "bricked" is thrown around so flippantly these days. If a piece of tech is bricked, it's not recoverable at all.

The original source[0] states that access to Recovery Mode is not possible, at least in some cases. One user there reports[1] that the device shows no signs of life--no power, no fans spinning, nothing:

> No power at all. I tried SMC and PRAM reset but sadly was unable to do either since my computer won’t even turn on.

[0]: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/warning-macos-catalina-...

[1]: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/warning-macos-catalina-...

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interested in hearing about a Linux update that made the system unusable.

Are you kidding? I've had config files overwritten, x11/wayland/whatever just break after an update, wirelesss/power drivers just...change, sometimes to the point of having to recover it from a mono-screen tty, or updates fuck up the fs or something else that requires me to hit up single user mode.

Yeah, I got a black screen on boot on more than one occasion because of some change to either X11 or its config after updating. It's probably a rite of passage for a seasoned Linux user to figure out how to undo the damage to their `/etc/x11/xorg.conf`. (then again, I stopped using linux about 4 years ago, so maybe that's changed)

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was hit by this bug, my entire unit was fucked and I had to use Recovery over the Internet to reinstall a fresh OS on my 2019 MacBook Pro. Nearly everything on my Mac was dot sourced, on Git or using my local NAS' TimeMachine share. All the same, all my data on the Mac was still lost and had to be restored using backup.

Reinstalling the OS shouldn't wipe your data partition…

At least in the default install, it is all one partition. Moreover, if you had disk encryption or something, getting the recovery keys would be a risk even you had followed all the right steps. Granted, none of these are good excuses for not doing TM backups since those are so easy. But just saying people could lose data and not have an easy way to recover it.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#75
post #45

It's not "bricked" if you can fix it in Recovery Mode. Still bad that it's happening, but the term "bricked" is thrown around so flippantly these days. If a piece of tech is bricked, it's not recoverable at all.

"Bricked" is relative, depending on your skill level. For some consumers, if recovery mode doesn't work that might be the end of line. However, there are more advanced users that can access the storage via another system and fix it there, hook up via serial port or JTAG and flash new firmware, or even desolder and replace chips. On the far other end of the spectrum, there's going to be people that consider "doesn't s…

Going with the line being drawn at hardware, the practical difference for the end-user would be "can the Apple store fix it for me while I wait"

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#76
post #2

Odd, this seems to be happening across the industry and is now either reported better or just more prevalent. Besides bricks (well, is it a brick if you can recover?) we have seen post-update BSOD's, data loss, browsers going bad, settings getting reset on various operating systems of the big vendors out there. I know that it isn't like software 'used to be perfect' but this type of defect feels bigger than it used t…

I think this is the saddest part: was meant to resolve issues created by the 10.15.4 update in late March The "fix some bugs, add some new ones" trend has certainly gotten more common within the past few years. I still remember when the official advice was not to install updates unless you were experiencing the issues it was to fix, but that wasn't really applicable to security fixes, and now official advice seems to…

I think it's always been there. I remember reading a paper that said for every two bugs fixed a new one is created.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#78
post #54
post #16

This really sucks. Can’t use the new Xcode without Catalina but this release sounds so buggy.

Yes, there's no way Catalina is ever going on any of my machines. Apple has hit a real low-point with this release.

Just an anecdote but it's been rock solid for me and fixed a number of issues I had with Mojave.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#79
post #70
post #67

I'm consistently amazed by HN's ability to take the most meaningless, inconsequential part of an article (the scroll behavior, the whitespace, the usage of the word "bricked"), and nitpick it to hell and back instead of actually discussing the article. Bravo.

Well, maybe it's because the article is hyping itself up in order to get more attention than its content justifies. As a result, some large percentage of readers are let down by the actual content, and think it wasn't worth reading, let alone commenting on.

Oh c'mon, the real issue here is Apple's abysmal quality control (and really it's an industry-wide trend). They're phoning it in with real, tangible effect, but based on the upvotes here at the time of writing, HN seems to consider the debate around what "bricked" implies to be the most important conversation.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#80
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there's no way Catalina is ever going on any of my machines. Apple has hit a real low-point with this release.

Just an anecdote but it's been rock solid for me and fixed a number of issues I had with Mojave.

Which issues?
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