Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What's Next for Scala

lihaoyi.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 203 posts

Re: What's Next for Scala

#111

Post by pjmlp »

geodel wrote: post #107
pjmlp wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go is a competitor to Java 1.0, it still needs to grow a bit more if it wants to compete with Java 14 and its 25 years of tooling and libraries. If Go 2.0 ever happens, it will be a competitor to Java 5.

Good. Here I was thinking Java 17 to be released in 2021 will be competitor to Go 1.0 when it finally have value types.

Yeah, meanwhile Gonuts will still be discussing what is the best way to add generics, while it's users on Hacker News keep telling us that it isn't political and there is a working prototype at Google.

So where is the EA for generics like the value types EA I can download today from OpenJDK repository?

Re: What's Next for Scala

#112

Post by pjmlp »

twic wrote: post #92
pjmlp wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Where are the Go versions of Spring, JEE, Android, Solr, Liferay, Kafka, Gemalto, microEJ, PTC, Aicas, Ricoh, Kyocera, Java Card, VisualVM, JFR, JMX and plenty of other stuff I haven't bothered to type?

Isn't Kyocera, like, a printer company?

Yes it is, and those printers support Java for customised enterprise solutions.

Re: What's Next for Scala

#113

Post by pjmlp »

AzzieElbab wrote: post #74
pjmlp wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Where are the Go versions of Spring, JEE, Android, Solr, Liferay, Kafka, Gemalto, microEJ, PTC, Aicas, Ricoh, Kyocera, Java Card, VisualVM, JFR, JMX and plenty of other stuff I haven't bothered to type?

You really should not have started with spring and jee

Not understanding why they exist is the first error trying to sell to enterprise.

Re: What's Next for Scala

#114

Post by pjmlp »

ratherbefuddled wrote: post #99
pjmlp wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Where are the Go versions of Spring, JEE, Android, Solr, Liferay, Kafka, Gemalto, microEJ, PTC, Aicas, Ricoh, Kyocera, Java Card, VisualVM, JFR, JMX and plenty of other stuff I haven't bothered to type?

Avoiding the necessity for libraries like many of these would be a key success criteria for a new language were I judging.

Then don't expect to actually take over Java on the domains it owns.

Re: What's Next for Scala

#115

Post by LandR »

vbezhenar wrote: post #48
spir wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my mind, GraalVM native compilation has superseded scala-native. GraalVM native compilation works really well. Many projects will compile to native out of the box. Many more with a bit of reflection config that's autogenerated. The native executables are slim, statically linked so they "just work", and startup instantly as one would expect. Scala is now a great choice for CLI tools.

> The native executables are slim What's the size of hello_world.exe?

Dunno about Scala, but Clojure - another JVM language, has a GraalVM native executable for Hello WOrld about 8MB.

Not that slim.

Re: What's Next for Scala

#116

Post by mchisto »

z6 wrote: post #42
seahawks78 wrote: post #22

I very recently (about a year ago) joined a shop that is primarily into functional programming (FP) and I got my first exposure to Scala as well as F# through work projects. As a long time user of Java/OOP here are my thoughts on Scala and why it has so many things things going against it. Consider the following: 1) First, Scala is designed and developed by "ivory" tower academics primarily for research/PhD thesis pu…

Well put. I had to use Scala for a little and I wasn't a fan. It's maybe a fun language to play around with for a pet project, but for a reliable production system I would never pick it. The language is too flexible with too many ways to do the same thing, increasing cognitive load and making things difficult to understand. Maybe you can limit that in your own projects, but what if you have to look at a library codeb…

On hiring: Python Paradox comes to mind (http://www.paulgraham.com/pypar.html). I've never met sub-par FPer or Scala programmer specifically. Using PHP or Javascript might give you a bigger top of the hiring funnel, but it doesn't mean you'll have easier time finding well-qualified applicant.

Re: What's Next for Scala

#117

Post by dominotw »

spir wrote: post #41
dominotw wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I switched from scala to python and oh man what a relief. Scala is a heavy weight languange. By heavyweight I mean, 1. Even intellij struggles to figure out the meaning of implicits in the given context. And then there are macros. 2. Way too many theoretical concepts, monads, monoids , isomorphisms ect that make you feel stupid. There is always a nagging feeling that you don't 'get it' when you program in sca…

Scala 3 will alleviate some of the pain you felt, for example around implicits. Scala's IDE tooling is getting better with faster compilation and language servers. Scala is a fusion of object-oriented and functional programming. There are at least three major styles of Scala programs: OOP, functional, and reactive (actors). Scala indeed places the burden on the development team of choosing which patterns are right fo…

> Scala doesn't force these on you

Yea but one cannot write everything from scratch. I had to work on project that use cats, scalz and stuff. I felt like i was splitting an atom when i was actually writing a crud app :) .

Obsession with those theoretical concepts with dubious and unproven benefits is deeply interwoven in community. Cost of learning cats vs benefit is just absurd.

I would only recommend scala to programming language nerds that want to sound smart.

Re: What's Next for Scala

#118

Post by mchisto »

totalperspectiv wrote: post #4

As one of those new people boosting recent numbers, Scala is great! I use vscode with Metals and had no jvm experience before. sbt is annoying, Mill seems super promising, and graalvm native images basically mean that if I was going to do it in python, I might as well use scala now.

What's your problem with SBT? I've been using IntelliJ + SBT since I started with Scala and it has been working well for me.

Re: What's Next for Scala

#119

Post by therealdrag0 »

mchisto wrote: post #118
totalperspectiv wrote: post #4

As one of those new people boosting recent numbers, Scala is great! I use vscode with Metals and had no jvm experience before. sbt is annoying, Mill seems super promising, and graalvm native images basically mean that if I was going to do it in python, I might as well use scala now.

What's your problem with SBT? I've been using IntelliJ + SBT since I started with Scala and it has been working well for me.

Personally I prefer more declarative dependency configuration. Also the IntelliJ integration is terrible. It thinks so many of the files have syntax errors and doesn’t have reliable autocomplete or goto definition. Also I don’t like how many files there are; though to be fair i don’t know how standard our setup is.

Re: What's Next for Scala

#120

Post by therealdrag0 »

lcall wrote: post #64

I wanted Scala to be my "better Java" for a long time, mainly because it seemed to have plentiful headroom as I seek to learn more. The community enthusiasm was also contagious. But: 1) the ecosystem makes it seems like I need to be a genius enough to learn a new DSL a bit too often, and everything is so...complex, which leads to... 2) It is hard to pitch to an organization because of the learning curve if you assume…

I don’t understand your comment about SQLite. Doesn’t the driver manage creating a standard SQLite file? This shouldn’t really be Scala related.

Example connecting: https://github.com/tkawachi/sqlite-scalikejdbc-test/blob/mas...

Post reply on HN