A man owns the most advanced private air force after buying 46 F/A-18s • Hacker News Board

Re: A man owns the most advanced private air force after buying 46 F/A-18s

#281

Post by valuearb » Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 2:52 AM UTC

patentatt wrote: post #261

ShakataGaNai wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It ends up being a cost optimization & liability thing. Lets be honest, at least in the USA, our Government isn't terribly efficient with money. However, a corporate is driven by profit so they will be smarter. If you had an Air Force squadron of older planes, they need their own dedicated mechanics who are certified. Government certified vendors, who've gone through the vetting/price bidding process (likely the vend…

Smarter = pay less and give workers less rights and benefits than the US Government.

The US government significantly overpays most of its employees.

Re: A man owns the most advanced private air force after buying 46 F/A-18s

#282

Post by valuearb » Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 2:56 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #159

mlyle wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big one is that you can't buy air to air missiles. There's talk that these types of aggressor squadrons might be a last-ditch aircraft reserve for the US or allies, but they're not exactly primed/ready for war without armament or modern radars. (No, the fact that some of their aircraft have functional cannons and cannon rounds doesn't count).

A big one is that you can't buy air to air missiles. That's the sort of thing that can be easily circumvented and where the legal environment can also change rapidly. I will not be in the least bit surprised if a private military company deploys air power within the next 5 years.

Not this guy, unless he wants to incinerate billions in shareholder value.

Re: A man owns the most advanced private air force after buying 46 F/A-18s

#283

Post by angry_octet » Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 2:56 AM UTC

wolf550e wrote: post #135

But surely the private pilots training against US military pilots get to see the current tactics, and the private radars and electronic warfare pods get to record the current combat settings of US military radars and electronic warfare systems. There is no way this is not all classified top secret and a major target for foreign intelligence. So all his personnel, pilots and technicians, need clearance as if they were…

All the pilots will be retired US (or close ally) instructor pilots. They equipment and scenarios are still classified. The jets live on US bases or similarly secured facillities (e.g. Boeing).

Re: A man owns the most advanced private air force after buying 46 F/A-18s

#284

Post by StillBored » Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 3:05 AM UTC

DuskStar wrote: post #104

tootie wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read it all and while it's great that he has a legitimate reason to own these, it doesn't change the fact that he owns a private air force, heavy weapons and state-of-the-art countermeasures. It's a terrifying legal precedent and he's opened the door for a new market niche that less savory people can sneak into. The US already has ludicrously expansive personal rights to weapons ownership for any reason. We have a…

You do realize that there's a ton of precedent for privately-owned heavy weaponry in the US, right? As the 2nd Amendment folks would point out, there used to be US citizens who owned warships . F/A-18s without guided weaponry aren't really that much of a change. (they've got cannons, but afact no JDAMs, JSOWs, AMRAAMs or even dumb bombs) > Or, maybe more likely, some QAnon nutjob getting his hands on an armored vehic…

Well there was the killdozer guy, who did just that with what was basically a homemade tank. Which in a way proves that a sufficiently motivated individual isn't going to be stopped by silly laws against owning this stuff.

Re: A man owns the most advanced private air force after buying 46 F/A-18s

#285

Post by harikb » Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 3:07 AM UTC

Appropriate, albeit cheesy, Netflix movie to watch along with this - Angel has fallen

Re: A man owns the most advanced private air force after buying 46 F/A-18s

#286

Post by greedo » Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 3:09 AM UTC

projektfu wrote: post #268

greedo wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant culturally in the USN. TOPGUN used to be all air to air, all day. Now it's strike fighter training, E2 training, as well as the classical A2A. This may be better in some ways since the entire goal of TOPGUN was to train the trainers who would go back to their squadrons and improve capabilities. And that role has changed dramatically since the 80's where being the best pilot meant you might leave the Gulf of S…

It seems Israel has a strong dogfighting capability, but who else right now?

Israel is good in air combat, but I don't know how much of that is dogfighting anymore. Maybe the Brits, but the Eurofighter is more of an interceptor than a dogfighter. The French don't get much publicity, but arguably have the best military on the Continent.

Re: A man owns the most advanced private air force after buying 46 F/A-18s

#287

Post by _2d30 » Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 3:12 AM UTC

angry_octet wrote: post #219

Spinosaurus wrote: post #91

Air USA (Don Kirlin, president), along with a bunch of other companies were selected as contractors for the U.S. Air Force to provide "Red Air" (adversary training) services. This is not new; the Air Force uses private companies for training as the cost savings are immense: • Reduced flight hours and maintenance on fleet aircraft. • Instructors do not need to be pulled from schedules. • Fleet aircraft do not need to…

Let us not forget the hemorrhaging of pilots from the USAF, largely due to the hostile work environment and the general bullshit they have to endure. They simply don't have enough experienced people to provide this function.

This is interesting. Anywhere I can learn more about this or if you have the chance, would you expand?

Re: A man owns the most advanced private air force after buying 46 F/A-18s

#288

Post by angry_octet » Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 3:13 AM UTC

ShakataGaNai wrote: post #224

wazoox wrote: post #212

I don't understand what's the point of having a private contractor instead of say, a dedicated Air Force squadron. A private contractor who effectively has a monopoly is necessarily more expensive, as he needs to make a profit, while an Air Force squadron doesn't. Looks like some sort of elaborate public money scam to me.

It ends up being a cost optimization & liability thing. Lets be honest, at least in the USA, our Government isn't terribly efficient with money. However, a corporate is driven by profit so they will be smarter. If you had an Air Force squadron of older planes, they need their own dedicated mechanics who are certified. Government certified vendors, who've gone through the vetting/price bidding process (likely the vend…

These are all real cost reasons, but there is an important reason you are missing: people. Firstly, pilots don't receive much training benefit from being cannon fodder for other pilots; they are not learning to operate their system (whether Super Hornet or JSF) but emulating another aircraft (e.g. a Sukhoi). The situation is slightly different for the agressor squadrons, as they are emulating the most dangerous threats (like J31 or PAK FA). But for everyday readiness training, spending time as the red force is not a joy.

Second, the USAF has a pilot numbers problem. The more experienced pilots are getting out as fast as they are able; there are many reasons for this, and COVID-19 will slow it down, but it will continue. To compensate they are trying to ram more in at the front of the funnel. This will cause other problems, not the least of which is a massive shortage of training personnel, causing overwork, causing more FCIs to leave, and so on.

The ex-USAF (and ex-RAAF) pilots flying these jets are enjoying not being sent overseas to shitty bases on long tours, or having to move their family interstate regularly, or dealing with braindead administrative detail and mandatory fun exercises some Colonel dreamed up. They are some of the best pilots around, and normally they would be lost to the airlines.

Re: A man owns the most advanced private air force after buying 46 F/A-18s

#289

Post by lmm » Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 3:15 AM UTC

ardy42 wrote: post #156

VLM wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of. For various budgetary reasons and capex vs opex and stuff like that, the US only has two aggressor squadrons now, the 18th and 64th. The 65th shut down recently. We're kinda getting out of that business. Something quietly muttered about is we don't have the labor force anymore, so better off having our pilots in fighting squadrons instead of training squadrons. Another topic not mentioned much is the whole c…

> Another topic not mentioned much is the whole concept of aggressor squadrons and Top Gun etc came from fighting similar tier adversaries in the 60s and, while not losing, not winning at a high enough ratio > Well, generals always like to train to win the last war, not the next one, thats been true for a couple thousand years now. I disagree. Wasn't part of the problem in the 60s that the generals were training to w…

> Wasn't part of the problem in the 60s that the generals were training to win the next war, which they though would be fought at stand-off distances with guided missiles (i.e. suicide drones) carried by planes with little need to maneuver [1] [2]? It turned out they were wrong, and had to subsequently rethink their tactics and procurement requirements, which led to stuff like Top Gun and the F-14.

Yes but not really. They were preparing to use the technology of the time to fight a total war against a peer adversary, a la WWII, and in that kind of war those tactics would have been effective. As it happened, Korea and Vietnam were a very different type of war: the RoE were such that BVR engagements were rarely permitted, and it became necessary to develop tactics that would work in a counter-insurgency situation where distinguishing hostile targets from civilians or friendlies was more important than winning the engagement. It so happened that WWII-style dog-fighting with cannons was one of those tactics, but that feels like more of a coincidence than a generally applicable observation.

Re: A man owns the most advanced private air force after buying 46 F/A-18s

#290

Post by angry_octet » Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 3:27 AM UTC

RustyRussell wrote: post #258

justin66 wrote: post #62

It's quite interesting that Australia wants to let these go in favor of the F-35, rather than maintaining them in a reserve capacity. Letting the F-111 go in favor of the F/A-18 made a lot of sense because they were obsolescent and expensive to operate. In this case, I wonder if they might regret it if they ever face a period of increased military tensions.

Indeed, the all-in bet on the F-35 seems irresponsible, unless things have vastly improved somehow? As an Australian, this is a concern.

We don't have enough pilots to fly them. And against the type of opponent that could overcome F-35s, Classics wouldn't stand a chance. And the cost of maintaining them, a dual stream training pipeline, armaments, etc, would significantly detract from other capabilities (like AEW&C, ISR, unmanned jets, training & readiness, etc).

F35s are undeniably costly, but criticisms on the capability front usually come from the uninformed lunatic fringe (like APA), who are really the equivalent of climate change deniers, and groups with an axe to grind (Boeing would prefer to make more Super Hornet sales).