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Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

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Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#201

Post by Mirioron »

davelondon wrote: post #37
davelondon wrote: post #32

I tweeted about exactly this last month. Great news! https://twitter.com/dbrophy/status/1241434641250299905

My thoughts at the time: Close contact detection and alerts at the mobile OS level We need to get better and faster at stopping the spread of infectious diseases. Covid is already catastrophic. Next time R could be 5, and mortality could be 5, 10 or 20%. I believe we can use mobile technology to track close contact between individuals, and alert at-risk individuals to potential infections. I believe this could drasti…

The easiest way to convince the public is to lie to them, because that data is not going to be private. There is no chance that this won't be misused. NSA employees misused their power to spy on their neighbors and partners. There is virtually no chance that this won't be abused.

Every single authoritarian regime is salivating over something like this.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#202

Post by conradev »

FartyMcFarter wrote: post #116
jedberg wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already have the shiny button. They can compel cell phone companies to give this data to the government already, without you knowing about it. At least this way you will get some control of the info and you'll know what was collected and have control of it's disclosure (for now). In other words, this is no worse than what the government is already capable of, it just makes it easier for you to share the data wit…

> They can compel cell phone companies to give this data to the government already Bluetooth has a quite small range, which may give higher tracking precision (to anyone receiving the signal) than the data cell phone companies have.

Currently, yes, but "numerical results with a system operating at 39 GHz show that sub-meter 3D positioning accuracy is achievable in future mmW 5G networks" :)

https://arxiv.org/abs/1803.09478

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#203

Post by alyz »

DavideNL wrote: post #174

Am i the only one who thinks it's mindblowing that people use Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, etc. however now that Apple + Google release a tool to prevent thousands of people from dying in a pandemic they start thinking/complaining about the possible privacy implications? (without even having read the specs or knowing the details...)

This is dangerously close to Feinstein's "think of the children" argument.

If people complain about EARN IT, they should investigate privacy implications of this "enhanced" tracking technology.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#204

Post by Eridrus »

rojobuffalo wrote: post #198

Contact tracing has a time and place, and it's early in isolated outbreaks. The cat is out of the bag at this point and thinking we're going to contact trace our way to safety is a false promise. You'd have to be naive and short-sighted to accept their pinky-promise of privacy-first in this context.

If you assume the goal of contact tracing is to literally find every infection, yes, this isn't going to work. If you assume the point of this is to reduce R0, then this will work just fine at any stage of the pandemic.

There's obviously a question of what you should do when you find out you have been in contact, and that will differ depending on the stage. We probably want to be in a position where everyone who has come into contact with an infected person can get a test asap and if necessary then go into full isolation, not just going out less.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#205

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

_2d30 wrote: post #196
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #139

Two major OS platforms covering majority of the population working together in an attempt to better track current populations at behest of the government. How could anyone even begin to feel a wee bit cynical? To question this effort it worse than wanting PATRIOT ACT to expire. It is downright unamerican. I hate the fact that I definitely see a good reason for it and the goverment is more than happy to accommodate th…

Is this at the behest of the government? Seems privately driven?

Sure. DPA was not invoked only few days ago. Companies were not already threatened openly ( and not so openly ) to obey or else. Companies are effectively expected to volunteer their services or risk consequences from government( and potential bad PR ).

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#206

Post by mmcnl »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #200
mmcnl wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you even read the spec before dumping your thoughts? They address the privacy concerns explicitly. A short summary: - Doesn't collect personally identifiable information or user location data - People who test positive are not identified to other users, Google or Apple - List of people you’ve been in contact with never leaves your phone https://blog.google/documents/57/Overview_of_COVID-19_Contac...

I will admit that I did not, but having seen trends over the past few decades taught me to be rather skeptical. In other words, today's specs are little more to me than promises. I am ok with being downvoted for this. edit: I just "read" it ( it is not even a spec - it is not even a powerpoint presentation ). You are down voting me for questioning a couple of pictograms?

There is nothing wrong with being skeptical, I just think your objections are out of place. If you are really concerned then it's probably best not to use Android or iOS at all, who knows what data might be shared with the government without your knowing? This spec (or any app built on top of this spec) doesn't really change anything about that.

Edit: I wasn't downvoting you, and the link was the source for the summary for the privacy considerations. The details are in the actual spec.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#207

Post by jschwartzi »

FartyMcFarter wrote: post #116
jedberg wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already have the shiny button. They can compel cell phone companies to give this data to the government already, without you knowing about it. At least this way you will get some control of the info and you'll know what was collected and have control of it's disclosure (for now). In other words, this is no worse than what the government is already capable of, it just makes it easier for you to share the data wit…

> They can compel cell phone companies to give this data to the government already Bluetooth has a quite small range, which may give higher tracking precision (to anyone receiving the signal) than the data cell phone companies have.

Bluetooth 5.1 devices can do both distance and direction, so if you have a bunch of beacons you can determine your location to sub-meter accuracy.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#208

Post by RivieraKid »

DavideNL wrote: post #174

Am i the only one who thinks it's mindblowing that people use Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, etc. however now that Apple + Google release a tool to prevent thousands of people from dying in a pandemic they start thinking/complaining about the possible privacy implications? (without even having read the specs or knowing the details...)

Agreed. Majority of people have their location history, chats, emails, browsing history, etc. saved on the cloud. This Bluetooth tracker is a complete privacy nothingburger.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#209

Post by Eridrus »

joosters wrote: post #42
blhack wrote: post #12

The interest in "privacy" around contact tracing seems like a ship that sailed a long time ago to me. Verizon etc all already have this data, and it isn't "private", and so does uber, lyft, and every other overly-aggressive-permission-askning-app that anybody has ever installed. Privacy is really important: but we lost it all a long long time ago. Maybe saying "well now we can do a good job of contact tracing" is at…

That's too defeatist: these contact tracing tools will be gathering data that isn't available any other way - otherwise, they'd just be going straight to Verizon etc for what they need. Presumably the bluetooth recording will give much better fidelity/precision about who is close to who, in all conditions (in buildings, in the subway, etc), where simple phone triangulation or GPS won't be accurate enough. That's far…

I don't know how effective this was, but Israel did exactly this: https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/18/israel-passes-emergency-la...

US public institutions seem frankly sclerotic. The fact that the government has or has not done something provides almost no signal on whether something is possible or not.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#210

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

mmcnl wrote: post #206
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will admit that I did not, but having seen trends over the past few decades taught me to be rather skeptical. In other words, today's specs are little more to me than promises. I am ok with being downvoted for this. edit: I just "read" it ( it is not even a spec - it is not even a powerpoint presentation ). You are down voting me for questioning a couple of pictograms?

There is nothing wrong with being skeptical, I just think your objections are out of place. If you are really concerned then it's probably best not to use Android or iOS at all, who knows what data might be shared with the government without your knowing? This spec (or any app built on top of this spec) doesn't really change anything about that. Edit: I wasn't downvoting you, and the link was the source for the summa…

I disagree. You base your opinion on nothing more than a couple of icons. Having now read it, I cannot in good faith even call it specs. It is a step above infomercial. Hardly something trustworthy.
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