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A man owns the most advanced private air force after buying 46 F/A-18s

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Re: A man owns the most advanced private air force after buying 46 F/A-18s

#131

Post by Grakel »

Zenst wrote: post #123
astronautjones wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So for this to pay off as a business over being done inhouse, does make you wonder and try to work out why that is. "inhouse" is probably still a no-bid buddy contract with a large defense corporation, so his rate probably doesn't even need to be very low at all

That certainly would of played a part and in bidding for the contract the military may of needed 3 quotes. So h usual suspects quote, large amount as case of if they accept, then we can afford to just do it and still cheese happy, if not, no investment beyond a fat large quote. So only takes one serious player to do a quote more realistic and yet profitable and they are up and running. So even without any buddy buddy…

"Would have." "May have."

Re: A man owns the most advanced private air force after buying 46 F/A-18s

#132

Post by analyst74 »

throwaway373438 wrote: post #47
0xff00ffee wrote: post #17

I used to have a single shut-down in 2nd amendment arguments. When my opponent would claim that the 2nd amendment gives civilians the power to overthrow a government, my favorite response was to compare poorly armed and trained americans to essentially the Taliban, and follow that up with: and then the US would drone/bomb you to oblivion with their air force superiority, like how Israel dominated the no-air-force Mid…

The argument you're describing is missing the point. Historically, most government abuse occurs at the local level and this is where a personal right to bear arms becomes relevant. Decades ago, a gun could prevent a lynching by a racist sheriff. Today, perhaps it prevents a rape during a rural traffic stop. Government is a diverse collection of entities. It's a mistake to assume that resisting the government means ov…

If a civil-rights activist can threaten a racist sheriff, what's stopping a criminal from threatening a good one?

Re: A man owns the most advanced private air force after buying 46 F/A-18s

#133

Post by larrywright »

swalsh wrote: post #114
naringas wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so then, it's not "a man owns a private airforce" but "a man who owns a company and this company owns a private airforce"

But what if that man who owns that company, decides he wants to change his business model? The private part is still important. It's a legitimate fleet of military aircraft that would rival the air forces of many small countries that is directed by a man who really isn't accountable to us outside our borders. This isn't new territory, it's just that you have to go back a few hundred years to see small groups of priva…

They’re not armed jets, that’s an important distinction. Short of flying into something, how would these actually pose a threat?

Re: A man owns the most advanced private air force after buying 46 F/A-18s

#134

Post by atdrummond »

nomadiccoder wrote: post #129
atdrummond wrote: post #54

I grew up in the town where Mr Kirlin and his businesses are based, have lived there on-and-off, and know him through various personal and professional circles. I also am formerly of the aerospace industry myself. I’m happy to answer questions people may have.

What is the slowest water animal in the world?

I’m going with coral.

Re: A man owns the most advanced private air force after buying 46 F/A-18s

#135

Post by wolf550e »

But surely the private pilots training against US military pilots get to see the current tactics, and the private radars and electronic warfare pods get to record the current combat settings of US military radars and electronic warfare systems. There is no way this is not all classified top secret and a major target for foreign intelligence. So all his personnel, pilots and technicians, need clearance as if they were active military (maybe more, because advanced tactics and information on all different NATO allies and aircraft, not a single squadron like most service member know).

Even if for some reason it is cheaper for the US military to have this in a private company instead of maintaining aggressor squadrons with Migs, how is this secure?

Re: A man owns the most advanced private air force after buying 46 F/A-18s

#136

Post by AnimalMuppet »

analyst74 wrote: post #132
throwaway373438 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument you're describing is missing the point. Historically, most government abuse occurs at the local level and this is where a personal right to bear arms becomes relevant. Decades ago, a gun could prevent a lynching by a racist sheriff. Today, perhaps it prevents a rape during a rural traffic stop. Government is a diverse collection of entities. It's a mistake to assume that resisting the government means ov…

If a civil-rights activist can threaten a racist sheriff, what's stopping a criminal from threatening a good one?

But even without the Second Amendment, the criminal could still get a gun. The difference is, with the Second Amendment, the civil-rights activist can also get a gun.

Re: A man owns the most advanced private air force after buying 46 F/A-18s

#137

Post by TechBro8615 »

tootie wrote: post #118
DuskStar wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that there's a ton of precedent for privately-owned heavy weaponry in the US, right? As the 2nd Amendment folks would point out, there used to be US citizens who owned warships . F/A-18s without guided weaponry aren't really that much of a change. (they've got cannons, but afact no JDAMs, JSOWs, AMRAAMs or even dumb bombs) > Or, maybe more likely, some QAnon nutjob getting his hands on an armored vehic…

I know. There's a document out there somewhere with John Adams signature telling a merchant captain it's fine to put cannons on his vessel. Privateers were even recruited to fight the British in 1812. That's what the 2nd amendment was actually written for. And the last time it was relevant. And I think just saying it hasn't happened yet is like saying we haven't had a giant pandemic yet in 2019. I'd rather not wait f…

"Do something about it" like what? The 2nd amendment specifically says the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. If some nutjob wants to hurt people, he can figure out a way to do it with some household chemicals and gasoline. And if we're truly worried about that, shouldn't we be addressing the mental health problems that would cause somebody to drive a tank through a mall? I know it's a cliche, but guns don't kill people... people do.

Re: A man owns the most advanced private air force after buying 46 F/A-18s

#138

Post by greedo »

ardy42 wrote: post #42
ceejayoz wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Aggressor squadrons" train very differently, to mimic potential adversaries combat doctrine. The aircraft may also be modified to perform more like the aircraft they're simulating. They're even painted differently, like this F-15 in Russian-style camo: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/F-15E-80...

> "Aggressor squadrons" train very differently, to mimic potential adversaries combat doctrine. Yeah, but doesn't the US have those too, at Top Gun and Red Flag? I'd think that Top Gun would have aggressor squadron pilots qualified to fly F-18s.

TOPGUN is pretty much gone now.

Re: A man owns the most advanced private air force after buying 46 F/A-18s

#139

Post by akarma »

krapp wrote: post #117
akarma wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would the Holocaust have been quite as terrible if every citizen (Jewish included) owned a gun, and it wasn’t just the bad guys backed by the government who were armed? Also, to talk about how it’s hopeless to have a gun versus a drone — there aren’t enough drones, and Vietnam is a great counter-example for “tech always wins.”

>Would the Holocaust have been quite as terrible if every citizen (Jewish included) owned a gun, and it wasn’t just the bad guys backed by the government who were armed? Maybe, maybe not. The Nazis weren't just "bad guys backed by the government who were armed," they were a political party, which included much of the German populace, who supported its anti-Semitic ideals. It's possible more guns would have ended the…

I imagine that any German, if they desired to commit genocide, could join the Nazis and acquire a weapon. Those who disagreed with the party in power could not.

Citizens being armed would both change the calculus of a genocide, making it harder to execute and possibly preventing it.

If attempted anyway, it would be much messier for the Nazis.

Re: A man owns the most advanced private air force after buying 46 F/A-18s

#140

Post by krapp »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #136
analyst74 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a civil-rights activist can threaten a racist sheriff, what's stopping a criminal from threatening a good one?

But even without the Second Amendment, the criminal could still get a gun. The difference is, with the Second Amendment, the civil-rights activist can also get a gun.

Some other countries allow private ownership of firearms without a Constitutional amendment, so latter case is theoretically possible with or without the 2A.
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